Euclideon (aka. Unlimited Detail) is at it again

category: general [glöplog]
scali: dust off your engine so we can do a demo called Klerksdorp Sphere!
added on the 2014-09-24 17:20:25 by Maali Maali
scali: dust off your engine so we can do a demo called Klerksdorp Sphere!

That's not dust, that's a particle-effect!
added on the 2014-09-24 18:36:19 by Scali Scali
Dear demoscene!

I see that you treat Bruce in the insame same way you treat me.

Yes, he should open up his algorithm. But he clearly states what he did - improving laser scanning - and he invites companies to have their places scanned. That sound like a scam? No.

Either way: I think you are JEALOUS because he got MONEY for HIS PROJECT and YOU probably STILL HAVE TO WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE.

You're complaining that he got money from the government? Government SCAMS YOU, ALL THE TIME.

Please wake up and start supporting innovation.

the AI revolutionary
added on the 2014-09-26 10:27:28 by Gertrude Gertrude
added on the 2014-09-26 10:39:20 by StingRay StingRay
What StringRay said.
added on the 2014-09-26 10:45:48 by xTr1m xTr1m
Well. Demo scene needs healing.
added on the 2014-09-26 10:52:19 by Gertrude Gertrude
@Gertude: It's true that most people were skeptical about euclidon and a predictable negative thing to say about Bruce, but it's because he sound obnoxious and claiming he invented a revolution and all that, which technology might be interesting to voxel/point cloud/whatever freaks, graphics people laugh though. I admit I didn't liked the skepticism when this thing started years ago, some people thought they were debunking and were cool for that. But watching this video again, I just sighed. And I didn't want to comment so far, what everybody else said.

Well, at least he is working on something interesting. Although polygons are still most beautiful and easy to work for games (who cares if it's a bit curved?). Voxels and other alternative stuff are for coderporn. Maybe he should just do demoscene stuff and pretend he invented shadebobs :)
added on the 2014-09-26 11:00:57 by Optimus Optimus
Well. Demo scene needs healing.

Hehe, maybe the world needs healing. No wait, we need healing. Me and you.
added on the 2014-09-26 11:02:10 by Optimus Optimus
What I do not see is: more ALU power, more memory bandwidth.
Let me be a bit rough: Just from the numbers it looks like they added more power to the rasterizer units but crippled memory bus bandwidth and some other things in favor of Green IT stuff (power efficiency is nice, but I care more about the real numbers - not pixels shaded per watt). Hopefully I'm wrong here, but I have the strange feeling there must be a reason why they don't compare their new cards to GK110 cards. Looking forward to real numbers.

At least for compute stuff (ray tracing, etc) we got a -very- nice perf increase here, when compared to the same thing running on a "similar" Kepler. And that also at much less power consumption.
added on the 2014-09-26 17:28:25 by toxie toxie
Thank you toxie, that's what I actually want(ed) to know. Can you define "similar"?
added on the 2014-09-26 20:36:30 by las las
Las: they increased cache size to make smaller membw path AFAIR
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added on the 2014-09-27 08:42:13 by leGend leGend
Everyone seems to assume Euclideon's target for their work is games. Without knowing the people involved, that may have changed over time. Certainly, if they find they can get better help and more money outside the game industry, is there any blame you can put on them if they decide to change their target? Would you blame another company in the same way for not applying their MRI scan modeling software for games? Would you whine about the lack of dynamic lighting and bad camera paths in a demonstration of that software showing spinning organs?

Then it gets personal, with some people hating everything to do with Euclideon, based on how someone's voice sounded in early clips, presumably. So if he hired some company voice-over guy, everything would be okay? If so, that means it's okay now.

Also, to make a detalied game without using voxels, and you were 3 guys or so, you'd need 10 years too. Usually a standard "big" game takes 100 people 2-3 years to create much less detailed worlds.

So I see this as them discovering that there was a problem to solve first of all, how to get all the detail in and manage it. To me it just shows they're serious that they "got sidelined from making game tech" to prioritize this.

To me, it was clear that this would be very limited for games. I still can't see how they'd get bones, cloth, etc from the scan since it's from the wrong direction. I can only see a hybrid of detailed, static voxel worlds and less detailed voxel objects.

So now that they show off their scanning basically, everyone is all over them because it's not game-y, but I don't think that misperception is Euclideon's problem, but that all the ill will and bad press from idiots could stop even their scan work. That would be an unnecessary outcome, and whining idiots would be the responsible ones.
added on the 2014-09-27 16:57:53 by Photon Photon
i would whine about the lack of anything when the company is comparing their tech with "game tech", _WE_ didnt start to compare it with games, _THEY_ did. for gaming purposes this tech is useless unless you enjoy a lot of static action ;)
added on the 2014-09-27 17:40:52 by Maali Maali
for fully destructive environment, I've invented ERL. it's a kind of 3D voxel format that makes a skull in less than 4ko compressed.

DEAD DEER/Modelisation/Examples/Artworks/lifemorph.ned
DEAD DEER/Modelisation/Examples/Artworks/anim1.erl
DEAD DEER/Modelisation/Examples/Artworks/anim2.erl

the example in DeadDeer makes volum interpolation. note that the idea makes voxel low cost memory usage.
added on the 2014-09-27 17:50:42 by Barti Barti
Maali: well they had an AK-47 in one of their demos, and it like moved POV and shit! That should be enough to woo the game crowd, really.

I mean, it's not like game devs do somersaults to bring new game ideas to gamers. That risk is usually left to be taken by... well, surprise, indie devs.

And surprise surprise, major game devs are sucking the money teet. Just take those fails that dev'd BF4! Let's get all excited how they're not bringing new tech into games but riding off graphics card upgrades, and _taking money_ for deving the same game as before where all you do is run around with a gun and blow stuff up. Nothing has changed since 1997. Scammers!

Gotta hand it to DMA Design and few others, they swallowed this bitter pill of going pro and when they had to make done-before mainstream games they made them well and kept their integrity.
added on the 2014-09-27 22:02:50 by Photon Photon
Are you aware that a couple of people involved with BF4 and the tech behind it are probably reading pouet? :P
many sceners at "those fails that dev'd BF4!" btw. but what do you know.. :P
added on the 2014-09-27 22:15:13 by Maali Maali
Wait, how did we go from hating on Euclideon to hating on DICE?
added on the 2014-09-28 00:21:32 by Scali Scali
I'd translate my post with Google Translate to whatever is your native tongue, but even if the sarcasm gets through it seems like it might be lost on you.
added on the 2014-09-28 00:49:47 by Photon Photon
I kinda hate how most of those military shooters all look the same. I never have bought any COD or BF anyway, neither do I play them.
added on the 2014-09-28 06:29:32 by Optimus Optimus
added on the 2014-09-28 07:32:54 by gentleman gentleman
added on the 2014-09-28 07:33:17 by gentleman gentleman
Everyone seems to assume Euclideon's target for their work is games.

How can it not be about games? If its not about games, they should stop using games as examples in their videos!
added on the 2014-09-28 10:36:03 by Canopy Canopy
So now that they show off their scanning basically, everyone is all over them because it's not game-y

No. "Everyone" is "all over them" because they've been bragging / not proving shit for years and "don't worry - trust us - this works and will change the world" is not really a very sensible position to hold if you want to be taken seriously.

But I don't have time for this, I have this perpetuum mobile machine that works -- honestly it does -- and I have some government funds to go get my hands on -- later!
added on the 2014-09-28 18:09:24 by gloom gloom
My speculation is that they've had to face realities of adoption resistance and getting the right detailed scanned and modeled data in. Whether Dell helps or hinders adoption as learning CEO nee programmer is a separate discussion.

I think it's fair to accuse Euclideon of having been naive about those realities and the work it takes to get into modeling workflows in an established industry. If they do want to get into games, hopefully a lot of time is invested in catering to that workflow and updating their engine with the stuff that has come since their first demo. If they have pursued this, it might have been a struggle without help from industry professionals, which is what I think they need to make this take off.

Aero3Dpro offers this format which presumably is attractive to potential geospace partners. Split focus is never good for a company, but it's a natural fit and might provide income to reach the original goal.
added on the 2014-09-29 13:00:05 by Photon Photon