pouët.net

Diskmag engine in HTML5?

category: residue [glöplog]
Honestly, I like diskmags when they're on older machines. Maybe it's because I never lived in the heyday of C64/Amiga being relevant, but I think it's a fun way to consume scene "news".

That said, PC diskmags make no sense to me at this point unless they're easily readable in a browser or something.
hey, there are even trackers in web-browsers: http://www.stef.be/bassoontracker/ made in javascript tho. im sure you can do crossfading in it.

with a online .mod, .xm /.it library you could get a musician to track your fullscreen module for your diskmag.
added on the 2017-06-30 02:13:22 by rudi rudi
codef
added on the 2017-07-03 15:48:38 by spiny spiny
I just stumbled across this old thread while googling for online diskmags, also curious about the topic.

I've always enjoyed the cosy atmosphere that was found in diskmags in the good old days. A website simply does not have this same cosiness.

But yea, it's perfectly doable with HTML5. Can even be made as an installable thing, so that it runs offline too. But since we aren't seeing anyone do it, I guess we can conclude there's only a small group of people interested.

I released a Blu-ray Diskmag-like production in 2017, thinking it was a suitable modern platform for a diskmag, when wanting to include 9 hours of video and 5 hours of audio - and be able to watch it all offline. I feel a diskmag deserves the same kind of attention you give a movie. But I received complains that you can't view Blu-ray on tablets and cellphones - so I created an ePub and PDF version too - without all the video and music.

So I guess, what people want nowadays, is a cellphone web-app made with HTML5 that runs on modern phones and tablets.

Anyone out there wanna make such a diskmag? Or know of an existing one?
added on the 2019-04-21 19:40:27 by mr_lou mr_lou
It's 2019 now and you can do anything dismagy in a browser.
Whether anyone wants to actually do it is another matter.
added on the 2019-04-22 00:15:30 by mop mop
Yes. But web has its disadvantages too: Websites die. And when they do, the content is usually just gone.

To me, diskmags also serve as a "timestamp" from the era. I wanna be able to go back to it a decade or two later.

That's why I prefer distribution to be in the form of a package somehow, in a format that doesn't just die all of the sudden.

Like e.g. the ePub3 format; an eBook format based on HTML that allows for music and video content too, and which can be viewed virtually everywhere nowadays, because there are ePub readers for almost all platforms. So an ePub should theoretically be possible to shape into a (retro'ish looking) diskmag-like thing.

A modern diskmag nowadays could/should also contain video imho. These days Revision is taking place. So a (modern) diskmag should of course include video footage from that event. This is where I find Blu-ray ideal as a platform. Blu-ray is essentially a playable backup, and it can be played by so many different devices, both hardware and software based: Standard players, gaming consoles, media boxes, and software like VLC and Kodi. Play a physical disc, or play the ISO file or folder structure.

Example of such a Blu-ray diskmag-like project can be seen at www.8bitMemoirs.com
Some other examples of what you can do with Blu-ray: http://www.pouet.net/lists.php?which=59

But Blu-ray currently excludes cellphones and tablets, which most people seem to want to use. Both VLC and Kodi does have an Android port, but afaik they're both missing BD-J support.

So ePub3 looks like the ideal format as far as I can see.
added on the 2019-04-22 08:11:44 by mr_lou mr_lou
Write an emulator of your favourite old computer in js.
Create a diskmag for that old computer.
Embed in a web page.

Here's your diskmag in HTML5.
added on the 2019-04-22 15:18:22 by svo svo
Quote:
Yes. But web has its disadvantages too: Websites die. And when they do, the content is usually just gone.

So do download links for prods. All. the. time.
Lack of proper archival is not an argument for either of the two sides, really. Web diskmags could easily be hosted e.g. on scene.org or untergrund.net for preservation.
Quote:
Write an emulator of your favourite old computer in js.
Create a diskmag for that old computer.
Embed in a web page.


I've thought about this too actually. Would work for some systems. I haven't yet seen an HTML5 Amiga emulator that runs well enough though.
But it would be a good solution, because the disk-image file would be downloadable too.


Quote:
So do download links for prods. All. the. time.
Lack of proper archival is not an argument for either of the two sides, really. Web diskmags could easily be hosted e.g. on scene.org or untergrund.net for preservation.


Only good enough if the downloaded version can run without needing to install any webserver software. In other words, it'll have to be plain HTML/Javascript/CSS - no serverside scripting.
added on the 2019-04-22 19:20:06 by mr_lou mr_lou
I don't see a problem with running server-side stuff although it probably is not necessary for a diskmag - after all there are many lightweight servers that could be used to serve the page if one wants to do that locally.
Scene.org will probably not go offline too soon, I guess that even when most of us are very old somebody from the next generation will take over hosting Scene.org. I agree a big advantage of a diskmag is that it can easily be archived, that is also why I always said no when somebody suggested making Hugi a HTML-based magazine.
added on the 2019-04-22 21:15:56 by Adok Adok
Quote:
So I guess, what people want nowadays, is a cellphone web-app made with HTML5 that runs on modern phones and tablets.

Anyone out there wanna make such a diskmag? Or know of an existing one?
I would like to join up with you, let's make such a diskmag together.
added on the 2019-04-22 21:18:12 by Adok Adok
Quote:
I don't see a problem with running server-side stuff although it probably is not necessary for a diskmag - after all there are many lightweight servers that could be used to serve the page if one wants to do that locally.


If you need to set up a server just to view an old diskmag - then you simply won't bother. Simple as that.

Another (big) downside of web tech, that I forgot to mention, is that it is constantly changing. I've made quite a few web based "maildiscs" back in the day; personal diskmag-like things. Sent to penfriends on discs, ran on their PC using browsercall.exe and then just used HTML and javascript.
But because of constant changes with browsers and HTML and Javascript over the years, none of those discs work properly today, so I'm of course not naive enough to think a HTML5 based diskmag will work properly 10-20 years into the future.

Although, it should be noted, that the last disc version of RGCD seems to still work fine today - and that is indeed 10 years old.

Quote:
Scene.org will probably not go offline too soon, I guess that even when most of us are very old somebody from the next generation will take over hosting Scene.org. I agree a big advantage of a diskmag is that it can easily be archived, that is also why I always said no when somebody suggested making Hugi a HTML-based magazine.


Maybe what we actually need instead, is an agreed upon content file structure, which can then be read and parsed by different engines on several different platforms.

It is clear that people have different (strong) opinions about which platform is the most suitable one. So we could simply let everyone make their own engine for their own favorite platform. Maybe it would even bring the scene more together. One diskmag for all platforms - or at least any platform anyone sends content for - running on many platforms.

Quote:
I would like to join up with you, let's make such a diskmag together.


I would definitely like to be a part of such a project. I've been longing for a (CPC oriented) diskmag for long over a decade. (And when I didn't succeed in persuading anyone into making one of those, I ended up making 8-bit Memoirs myself). But I'm pressed for time with job and family, and I've already "sacrificed" the family for the 5 years it took me to create 8-bit Memoirs. So I can't make any promises of being a whole lot available. But I'm gonna send you a PM with my contact info.
added on the 2019-04-23 07:09:40 by mr_lou mr_lou
Quote:
If you need to set up a server just to view an old diskmag - then you simply won't bother. Simple as that.

You are making assumptions because of the big and frightening word "server". No, "having a server" doesn't mean that people need to figure out how to install apache2 on their system. Setting up a server can be as simple as bundling Python (or having it pre-installed on something like Linux) and using its bundled HTTP server, or take one of the many C++ HTTP servers like Beast and modifying it to your diskmag's liking. "Starting a webserver" would be as simple as running a script that starts the server and then opens localhost in your default web browser. It's just about as simple for the user as any other diskmag. Customizing a HTTP server in this way might be even less work than writing a full diskmag engine.
Quote:
Maybe what we actually need instead, is an agreed upon content file structure, which can then be read and parsed by different engines on several different platforms.

Like, for example, HTML?
added on the 2019-04-23 14:06:46 by svo svo
HTML5 (CSS, JS) is a diskmag engine. ;)
added on the 2019-04-23 14:48:06 by Salinga Salinga
Quote:
SettJSing up a server can be as simple as bundling Python[...]


OUCH! /o\

Quite a bunch of diskmag engines use an HTML-like format or a subset of it as article data format, thus making it easy to serve both a real diskmag engine as well as an online version of it. Not even speaking of integrating one of the browser engines under the hood of a diskmag engine.

Requiring a server is bogus, everything can work pretty fine from the file system.

And the part of HTML+JS which is essential for a diskmag is pretty mature for more than a decade, if it stops working in 10 years you´ve just done it wrong.
added on the 2019-04-23 23:58:25 by T$ T$
Quote:
Like, for example, HTML?
HTML5 (CSS, JS) is a diskmag engine. ;)


A website
is not
a diskmag!


But yes: HTML could be used as article data format yes, if you keep it plain HTML for the actual articles - but if you want to make a diskmag rather than just a website, then you can't just let the browser interpret this plain HTML and claim it's a diskmag. You need to code an engine that presents the HTML in a diskmag-like style with all the elements one would expect to be a part of a proper diskmag: Sliding or fading pages, cosy colours, relaxing background music etc etc.

For web, this engine of course has to be coded with Javascript (or whatever other languages that exists these days that "compiles" into Javascript).

If you keep the HTML and Javascript separated like this, then the HTML part can be used for other engines on other platforms. Yay! Everyone is (supposed to be) happy!

But web technology is alive! It will change. And any site made with Javascript will stop working at some point due to deprecated methods and new security rules and whatnot.
added on the 2019-04-24 07:18:48 by mr_lou mr_lou
Perhaps diskmags do not get the attention they deserve because reading is an activity that takes too much energy for many people. Perhaps podcasts and video streams such as the one ps is doing (Mystery Demoscene Theater) are the future. What do you think?
added on the 2019-04-24 07:51:26 by Adok Adok
Two different products in my opinion.

For me, diskmags is much more cosy and relaxing than listening to podcasts and watching videos. Because I can read in my own pace. The colour-scheme does not remind me of boring books I once had to read in school, but instead gives a much more cosy atmosphere that actually makes it interesting to read. All while listening to relaxing background music composed by fellow musicians.

And by that I'm not saying I don't like podcasts or videos. One does not exclude the other. I'm merely saying they're two different things. (Or 3 different things).

It's just another way of saying: "We have websites now so we don't need diskmags!". To me that's just like saying: "We have movies now so we don't need books!". O_o

However! I see no reason why a modern diskmag nowadays can't also contain both podcasts and videos. That's what I did with 8-bit Memoirs: Added a whole 9 hours of supplemental video content.
added on the 2019-04-24 13:08:39 by mr_lou mr_lou
Well... To summarize the debate from my perspective:

You know, I made a diskmag for 18 years, and quite enjoyed it. Sometimes I experience the feeling that I would love to work on a diskmag again... But only if other people join me, and contribute to the magazine with articles, graphics, music...

I am happy that there are actually some people who express interest in the idea of making a diskmag, or working on a diskmag project. Still, it seems life has simply gotten harder in the past decades, and many people who would love to make a diskmag, generally speaking, have to struggle to survive these days and so they do not find the energy to carry out their plans related to diskmag making... Which of course sucks, but we cannot change that situation easily, unfortunately. And therefore it seems to the destiny that our dreams of making a great diskmags again will remain dreams, at least for the time being.
added on the 2019-05-08 07:04:41 by Adok Adok

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