pouët.net

Who Killed the American Demoscene?

category: parties [glöplog]
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j5wgp7/who-killed-the-american-demoscene-sync hrony-demoparty from https://news.slashdot.org/story/19/05/18/0436201/who-killed-americas-demo-scene
added on the 2019-05-20 00:03:22 by AntDude AntDude
Sidebar: Gloom and myself were contacted to provide input for the article, which the author asked on an extremely short notice (as he was leaving VICE to write for Wired), we did, and the next day the author's email address didn't work anymore; none of what we said seems to have made it in the article.
added on the 2019-05-20 00:06:44 by Gargaj Gargaj
Despite rumors to the contrary, the American demoscene is more alive than it's been in over a decade. Five parties are being held this year, and two of them have been held annually for quite some time: @party and Demosplash. As the lead organizer of the 10th annual @party, I encourage you to attend or submit a remote entry. For more information, please see our website.

Cheers,

- Dr.Claw - Lead Organizer, @party 2019
added on the 2019-05-20 02:22:52 by DrClaw DrClaw
@Gargaj Seems like a the writer went around syncrony and asked a few American demosceners about their guesses.

@Gargaj I am interested in the European perspective. Is it different from anything mentioned in the article?
added on the 2019-05-20 05:23:04 by Czery Czery
the article seemed pretty decent to me, shows some actual research.
added on the 2019-05-20 06:19:09 by psenough psenough
Such loosers who write reviews killed themselves. or Trumpisour xD

who killed Russian demoscene? From this year DiHalt going to cancel summer event, Multimatograf closed. so called "sceners" prefer to chat at forums or Tell-Agram.
added on the 2019-05-20 08:09:01 by g0blinish g0blinish
Quote:
I am interested in the European perspective. Is it different from anything mentioned in the article?

I think the article covers the larger beats (even if I disagree with the rather clickbaity headline), but it relies on Tomcat's rather biased view of things.
I personally pointed at the following:
- American capitalism and student loans don't give kids the fuckaround time in college that the European kids have.
- Too much regulation above event organizing (fire marshals, overnight lockdown, code of conducts, etc.)
- Societal attitudes towards art killed the middleground between commercially viable (mainstream) art and obscure curated art.
- Consoles sold better and were more popular than microcomputers.
added on the 2019-05-20 12:04:06 by Gargaj Gargaj
Quote:
I personally pointed at the following:
- American capitalism and student loans don't give kids the fuckaround time in college that the European kids have.
- Too much regulation above event organizing (fire marshals, overnight lockdown, code of conducts, etc.)
- Societal attitudes towards art killed the middleground between commercially viable (mainstream) art and obscure curated art.
- Consoles sold better and were more popular than microcomputers.


...and they realized it was actually cultural appropriation
Good points, Gargaj. Finding a willing venue when we were college age was a challenge. Watching Scamp explain that giant LED entry at Revision made me think, yeah, fire marshals would have shut this party down in the US by now :).

Many (N.) Americans don't get the point of creating something unless:
- you can get paid for it,
- you can play it like a game, or
- you can perform it live in front of an audience

The third one is what made the chiptune/8bit-scene big in the US. It also makes me wonder if something like the "shader showdown" could get bigger here. Watching people compete is popular too. (e.g. our eight million reality/talent shows)
added on the 2019-05-20 16:26:05 by phoenix phoenix
Quote:
Many (N.) Americans don't get the point of creating something unless:

To be honest I tried to avoid that kind of judgement; societies are shaped, they don't just happen. If we look at the causes rather than the effects, we're better off.
added on the 2019-05-20 16:36:22 by Gargaj Gargaj
Quote:
Quote:
Many (N.) Americans don't get the point of creating something unless:

To be honest I tried to avoid that kind of judgement; societies are shaped, they don't just happen. If we look at the causes rather than the effects, we're better off.

Yeah I mean what phoenix pointed out would seem to rather stem out from what gargaj mentioned first: the socio-economic atmosphere as well as the differences in legislation. With that said, the US folks I know through the company I work for don't know next to anything about the Demoscene, but several had heard of and been exposed to Shader Showdowns. I think it's worthwhile to consider both causes and effects for the sake oh holism, but to keep in mind it's not a flaw in personality or something; that route is just admitted willful helplessness on our part, at best.
added on the 2019-05-20 16:46:10 by noby noby
warez are illegal, without cracking scene no demoscene, right?
added on the 2019-05-20 17:03:46 by g0blinish g0blinish
phoenix: shader showdown can easily become more popular in the us, there were already clubs and bars with live coding sessions (i even remember iq talking about doing a few), so the battle thing should take it to the next level.
added on the 2019-05-20 17:20:42 by psenough psenough
Heh, Slashdot users trying to comment on the demoscene...
Did one of them actually say that the demoscene in Europe is because we're jobless hippies who live on government support?
added on the 2019-05-20 17:39:19 by Scali Scali
Hey, if it's meant as a compliment, I'll take it...
added on the 2019-05-20 17:43:08 by Gargaj Gargaj
But it's just the flipside of the "all Americans care about is money" line. Both are exaggerations that have some truth value but conceal the real causes.
added on the 2019-05-20 17:43:48 by Gargaj Gargaj
I think many commenters are also missing the point.
Trying to explain why 'the demoscene' is dead, by 'explaining' that hardware is too powerful, software has too many levels of abstraction etc.
Which totally ignores the fact that:
1) In Europe there's still plenty of intros/demos on modern hardware being made every year.
2) The argument doesn't apply to the oldskool demoscene in the first place.
added on the 2019-05-20 17:53:03 by Scali Scali
Slashdotters being stupid? Who could've guessed?!
added on the 2019-05-20 17:59:14 by porocyon porocyon
Please don't turn this thread into talking about Slashdot, there's no point.
added on the 2019-05-20 18:01:53 by Gargaj Gargaj
Yeah, WRT Venue Logisitics:

Finding a good venue for @party over the years has been very challenging. We're lucky to have ended up at the Artisan's Asylum makerspace where we can finally operate just like a European demoparty. The only thing we don't have is an outdoor space for a firepit. We're also zoned as light industrial and we've had fuck-off huge custom LED panels in here before (though not running demos, unfortunately).
added on the 2019-05-20 18:17:15 by DrClaw DrClaw
Shouldnt .. light industrial already have barrels on fire or such? Have all the movies lied to us.. :D - https://youtu.be/fpZUQgNbyig
added on the 2019-05-20 18:33:31 by leGend leGend
Yeah, this is light industrial, not heavy industrial. If we had the ventilation for long burning flames we'd have a forge by now ;) That said, we do have a CNC plasma cutter, which is kinda like a robot with a light saber... so I personally have a hard time complaining...
added on the 2019-05-20 18:49:48 by DrClaw DrClaw
@party also has the advantage of a brewery literally right next door :) https://www.aeronautbrewing.com
added on the 2019-05-20 18:58:49 by phoenix phoenix
"By the power of Money and the power of our prayers."

"God bless."
added on the 2019-05-20 19:24:34 by hitchhikr hitchhikr
I am surprised that finding a venue is harder in the U.S than in Europe. I though Europe was supposed to have much more regulation about everything and U.S much less so.


I always thought the biggest factor was demographic and geographic: There is more than twice the US population packed in less than half of the area in Europe.


Maybe the silicone valley is the demoscene that could have been.
added on the 2019-05-20 20:51:26 by maeln maeln

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