pouët.net

The Meteoriks Awards 2021

category: general [glöplog]
Quote:
No Demoscene release should have to be shared online to be considered released. The Demoscene started before the Internet, or even modems, this we know. It's like saying, if you didn't upload it with your modem to a BBS, it's not released yet.
Instead, we see an initiative that makes fools of us, forgetting our roots.

I absolutely second Photon here!
added on the 2021-02-21 11:33:08 by hfr hfr
Quote:
What's wrong with "Oldskool"/"Oldschool"?
Has a similarly condescending connotation as "low-end".
And some new productions for these old machines can feel surprisingly fresh and "newschool". =)
Plus it still feels like there should be at least 3 categories, as lumping together 8-bit and 16-bit platforms seems wrong, but so does 16-bit and current tech.
added on the 2021-02-21 12:29:10 by Krill Krill
I guess I don't care so much about the box, as about what's in it.
added on the 2021-02-21 13:43:20 by farfar farfar
Quote:
No Demoscene release should have to be shared online to be considered released.

I would like to note that our statement above does not contradict this - we are not saying "if it's not online it's not released" - it certainly is.

What we are saying is that for the Meteoriks the method of release must satisfy a certain degree of public availability, and we decided that "publicly downloadable binary" is the minimum degree of public availability we require for the Meteoriks.

The Meteoriks are a public award reaching out to a worldwide audience through the Internet. If a prod is nominated it should be at least as simple to get a hold of the prod as it is to get the information that it was nominated in the first place.

Quote:
He'd still have to beat votes for competing prods, and there are more PC users on Pouet than other platforms.

There's an important misconception in this sentence that I think is important to address independently:

The Meteoriks are not a demo compo.

They are explicitly and intentionally designed to not pay attention to who got the most public votes, and the prod suggestion features on Pouet and Demozoo are not voting frontends. If a prod is suggested by one person, our jury will look at it. If a prod is suggested by fifty persons, our jury will look at it in exactly the same way. If a prod is suggested by zero persons, chances are our jury will still look at it because they sift through all prods of the previous year to find the ones that stand out. The suggestions are only a means to make sure they don't miss your favorite prod.

Quote:
"You spread it on disk? How dare you, infidel!"

Your words, not ours. Please don't make this personal when it isn't.
added on the 2021-02-21 16:15:55 by dojoe dojoe
Quote:
The Meteoriks are a public award reaching out to a worldwide audience through the Internet.
If a prod is nominated it should be at least as simple to get a hold of the prod as it is to get the information that it was nominated in the first place.

It's totally understandabe that this was an unusual situation and your approach is the most comfortable for the jury and your audience.
The problem is that it disrespects how the artists would like their work to be distributed. And in the end this also means that you decide what a "proper" demoscene release is and what is not. If you have a look where the scene is coming from, this ridicules the award and also shows little interest to adapt to new developments.
added on the 2021-02-21 19:40:48 by hfr hfr
What dojoe says absolutely makes sense, but if we're still talking about the Scene Spirit category then I think there's an extra subtlety there, as things don't have to be actual productions to qualify for that category. If the thing being considered for an award is the act of distributing a demo by mail, then it seems to me that should qualify even if the jurors don't get to see the demo. (It's just that it probably won't do very well if all the jurors have to work with is a one-sentence description of what happened, that's all.) Otherwise, by the same logic, the Christmas card exchange wouldn't qualify because the jurors don't get to se all the cards.

I have to disagree with Krill. The fact that these demos are running on an old and underpowered-by-today's-standards platform is what makes them interesting, not the number of data lines on the processor. Terms like 'old' and 'low-end' are only deprecating if you choose to interpret them that way - if anything, I'd say you're underselling the achievement by not giving that context.
added on the 2021-02-21 19:53:10 by gasman gasman
Quote:
but if we're still talking about the Scene Spirit category

Ah thanks, you're right that that should be clarified. Our decision to only consider prods that have a publicly downloadable release applies for our standard fare categories where only prods are considered in the first place.

Scene Spirit is certainly a different thing, though the spirit (hah!) of the rule applies there as well - something should have been sufficiently public to qualify for consideration but I think that's pretty much a given in this category since how else would it have lifted our collective moods? :)
added on the 2021-02-21 20:19:08 by dojoe dojoe
let's nominate the Meteoriks for the Scene Spirit award for degrading low-end processors to "low-end" processors, just to go full circle!
Quote:
The problem is that it disrespects how the artists would like their work to be distributed. And in the end this also means that you decide what a "proper" demoscene release is and what is not. If you have a look where the scene is coming from, this ridicules the award and also shows little interest to adapt to new developments.


Well, no. Meteoriks is in no position to decide what is proper demoscene release and what is not. They are not _forcing_ anyone to do anything, unless the artists want to be nominated for one of their awards of course. If an artist wants compete for one of their awards, well, just follow their rules then. Works exactly the same as with all compos.

My two cents: artificially limiting the availability of art to increase its perceived value is pretty old trick in the art scene. Seems to be working, again.
added on the 2021-02-23 10:08:24 by pestis pestis
The Meteoriks crew are free to set their rules for their awards. That's fair enough.

What bothers me about this discussion is that the distribution of something on floppy is somehow "limited", "inaccessible" or even means that the production isn't really "released". What the actual fuck? A second hand Amiga 500 is way cheaper than whatever PC required to run the latest Windows demos and surely the vast majority of Amiga sceners must have at least one unused disk to send out for swapping.

Regarding Hologon, there was not secret handshake, no exclusive list of elite sceners deemed worthy of recieving a copy. I just sent some disks and got them back, filled with content - no questions asked. That's a public release if I ever saw one.
added on the 2021-02-23 12:12:39 by grip grip
We have obtained addresses and sent disks unconditionally to some elite Amiga sceners due to the low initial interest in our campaign. We do not demand to send in a disk, even just sending an electronic letter with an address can be enough.
Thanks to Haujobb (with whom we are in war now), the campaign is now in shatters, but it's not dead yet. I've sent three packages since yesterday.
It's an accurate observation that by making it more difficult to obtain, the value of a production increases - in this case from about zero to about zero. Let's not get carried away by the relevance and significance of demos.
I can speak only for myself, but my motivation is something different: I find it an abomination to consume demos not live from real hardware, but via video, from internet, captured from an emulator, or any combination thereof. This is pure ideology.
The problem is just the absence of parties. Normally I visit parties to watch stuff from other platforms. I rarely watch a demo again that I have seen at a party. I cannot watch demos for the Windows platform for example, but I can visit parties to see them.
As artists, we have the choice of the medium. In absence of parties with live presentation, we've chosen to send out floppy disks, to make sure that our demo enters the recipients' senses as immediately and undistorted as possible.
As it turned out, it's also huge fun that I can recommend to everybody. :-)
added on the 2021-02-23 13:11:48 by bifat bifat
Quote:
What bothers me about this discussion is that the distribution of something on floppy is somehow "limited", "inaccessible" or even means that the production isn't really "released".

It's important to me and the team to stress that we never intended our rule to mean any of these things. Other people in this discussion may or may not have expressed such sentiments but it's important to me to be crystal clear about this:

We are imposing a rule that a prod must be publicly downloadable to be eligible, for the reasons we outlined above. Nothing more, nothing less.

We do not intend to pass any kind of judgement on other methods of distribution like TEK use for Hologon. Quite to the contrary we like the idea of mailswapping and we applaud TEK for taking that approach! It just doesn't fit our rule, and had Haujobb not made it public we would not have considered Hologon. It has been made public before the prod suggestion deadline though and thus we are going to consider it for nomination.

By all means feel free to continue the discussion, but please keep in mind that some of the opinions and statements floating around in this thread are not ours and were never intended to be.
added on the 2021-02-23 15:03:17 by dojoe dojoe
Quote:
We are imposing a rule that a prod must be publicly downloadable to be eligible


As I said -- your awards, your rules. My rant wasn't directed at Meteoriks but rather at other posts in this thread. My apologies for being unclear.
added on the 2021-02-23 15:34:29 by grip grip
Quote:
I have to disagree with Krill. The fact that these demos are running on an old and underpowered-by-today's-standards platform is what makes them interesting, not the number of data lines on the processor. Terms like 'old' and 'low-end' are only deprecating if you choose to interpret them that way - if anything, I'd say you're underselling the achievement by not giving that context.
I was not suggesting to remove those boxes entirely, just to put better labels on them.
"Vintage" has a nice ring to it, "low-end" not so much, however you look at it. =)

The bitness thing was really just an apropos suggestion to avoid lumping together 68K-based and other machines from the late home computer era with the early stuff, without resorting to "low-end" and "lowest-end" or something. :)
added on the 2021-02-23 15:56:34 by Krill Krill
Quote:
My rant wasn't directed at Meteoriks but rather at other posts in this thread. My apologies for being unclear.

No worries, I just wasn't sure either way and figured it might be a good idea to generally clarify what is our stance and what isn't :)
added on the 2021-02-23 16:03:08 by dojoe dojoe
looking forward to publicly download all those scene xmas postcards that apparently are a scene spirit nominee!
Haujobb made a new release? That's true scene spirit! They just forgot to add a proper cracktro and a bunch of trainers ;-)
added on the 2021-02-23 16:42:47 by Kabuto Kabuto
like limp ninja did ages ago with that "warez"-release of that black maiden demo
Quote:
Haujobb made a new release? That's true scene spirit! They just forgot to add a proper cracktro and a bunch of trainers ;-)
Not sure if proper intro or trainers, but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsp9YfiAtFQ
added on the 2021-02-23 17:33:21 by Krill Krill
Quote:
like limp ninja did ages ago with that "warez"-release of that black maiden demo


like limp ninja did twice ages ago!
added on the 2021-02-23 17:59:06 by okkie okkie
Then again, what's a more pure representation of Scene Spirit than something that causes a multi-page argument about something colossally irrelevant?
added on the 2021-02-23 18:49:16 by Gargaj Gargaj

login