The future of pixelling / static graphics in demos : a question

category: general [glöplog]
keops: well, considering this is 2005, it's really hard to make an _actual_ oldsk00l production. It's all pretend :)
added on the 2005-05-06 16:25:40 by doom doom
photoshop killed the pixel star
added on the 2005-05-06 16:51:27 by phoenix phoenix
keops, hahahah thanks for the avatar :D

also, of course the roots aren't really for wussies. it's just that things change, and if people not pixeling anymore is one of them either start pixeling or accept the fact that it's all about 3d object shows. no need to do a certain thing like that just 'because it was like that in the old days too', imo.
added on the 2005-05-06 17:01:11 by skrebbel skrebbel
ehh. make that "that it's all about 3d object shows *nowadays*". :)
added on the 2005-05-06 17:04:27 by skrebbel skrebbel
skrebbel: actually Havoc is the one who made this wonderful avatar, after I made a suggestion on this thread: http://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=1952
added on the 2005-05-06 17:05:55 by keops keops
oldschool/alternative platforms still needs pixel graphisms.

Btw PhotoShop is handsome to do pixel per pixel graphisms.
added on the 2005-05-06 17:07:21 by p01 p01
hmmmmm cool, i totally missed that!
<3 to all!
added on the 2005-05-06 17:14:49 by skrebbel skrebbel
Its the balance that is wrong, pseudo oldskool.. hehe yes, its about pushing boundaries of platform. On PC this means having complex models with complex animation but also with design!

The general theme of planets and disasters just has to stop imho. Its boring. Why not make some interesting models like proper sculpture subjects? Afterall it is the electronic form of sculpture!

Get some style inspiration - be it Hiphop, Jazz, reallife, psychoactive drugs.. whatever.

P E A C E .
added on the 2005-05-06 17:14:54 by dv$ dv$
and finally... these oldskool wannabe's who rip sh1t from yesteryear - try it on a platform where its a challenge ffs!
added on the 2005-05-06 17:17:36 by dv$ dv$
devistator, i suggest you watch mfx-fortnight win32.
added on the 2005-05-06 17:18:17 by skrebbel skrebbel
agree with devistator
Get some style inspiration - be it Hiphop, Jazz, reallife, psychoactive drugs.. whatever.
added on the 2005-05-06 17:39:17 by uns3en_ uns3en_
added on the 2005-05-06 17:44:18 by Maali Maali
I think sceners dont aprriciate 2d gfx/design in demos as much as in earlier times.

for example check out this demo:


a great demo i think but since we ae living in a 3d era
............ Evolve with the time or be obsolete uh? :)
added on the 2005-05-06 18:44:14 by magic magic
to find a solution to this problem just simply see whatever you are creating as 'art'
this way it doesnt really matter what u use in your demo's because it will be judged for its artistic values and not because it may be taking advantage of the latest technology or not
Just my 2 lines or more:

Demos don't work the way they used to (i.e. effect, pic, 3d object, pic, ... pic ... pic etc), bringing a good 2d pic in can kill the flow. And if i did a really amazing pixelled work of art, would i want it used as a background with a spinning object and 50 layers obscuring it? no, it should be viewed alone for appreciation... So there's less space for good 2d in most demos perhaps.

As to the whole hand-pixelled low-res, low-colour vs. big high res true colour photoshop tabletised thing... its just progression. A low res, low colour pic just won't look right in most modern demos, and hand-pixelling a high-res 24bit pic is just too much work. Using a tablet and then polishing by hand after the bulk is there makes more sense.
added on the 2005-05-06 22:48:52 by psonice psonice
"Demos don't work the way they used to (i.e. effect, pic, 3d object, pic, ... pic ... pic etc),"

I do agree but, this is now generalising what 'newskool' demos should be.. i just think theres more room for design if it fits the style.. lets face it, your not really close enough to rendering realtime real-life looking scenes yet and therefore the modelling needs to be more artistic in my opinion.

I think Smash's/Fairlight's last two intros demonstrate what i would like to see more of, but thats just my personal taste.
added on the 2005-05-07 18:19:28 by dv$ dv$
Devistator, there's one thing you're missing though...it's not a question of "having to do this because you can't do that"...but rather the opposite :)

To elaborate, once upon a time it was way cool to do boris vallejo's pics on pixels, because it show great technical skill to get the feel and colours right, especialy on the limited medium that the computer once was. Hell, pixelled images like danny's were truer to the original than scanners could be! Today, it's not a really big deal. Artistic ability is easier to showcase and carries much more across to the viewer, than technical one.

Likewise, in rendering, you're not trying to be "artsy" because you can't be photerealistic enough...if you're trying either, it's because it's difficult for others to do! That's what demos have been about (so far at least). The day you can type a line of code such as RefractLightVolume(object *boundingBox, object *properties) will be the day it won't big a big deal anymore.

My original question was more along the lines of rethinking static gfx in demos, finding uses other than texturing a quad, maybe bring them back to a more important position for the demo's flow and overall value. This can't happen without strong code support, imho, unless you're doing 2d handrawn animation in the demo.
added on the 2005-05-07 19:44:58 by amv amv
theres still 2d about. Just look at Your Fingers so gently on my skin. Aether had a nice logo and lots of drawings integrated in the 3d. .Most visualice demos feature loads of 2d graphics. We definetly need more of the huge sprawling logos for futarh demos. I bet there is always room for a picture that fits the theme of the demo anyway, but it has to be good :)
added on the 2005-05-07 19:46:23 by loaderror loaderror
there's a huge difference between 24bits tabletized pictures and pixel by pixel pictures.
added on the 2005-05-07 19:49:45 by p01 p01
amv: lots of newer anime stuff mix 2d and 3d techniques. stuff that its not that abused in the scene, and could easily give interesting results.
added on the 2005-05-07 19:50:21 by psenough psenough
Devistator: Yeah, I was generalising, but my point was that its a lot harder to fit 2d into a modern demo than an oldschool one, which is probably a big part of why we see it less now.

amv: One thing I've been thinking about in the last couple of years is about the boundary between 2d and 3d, and that it should get a lot more blurred. Imagine if a really good 2d artist did a really great picture, then instead of leaving it as it is, it's passed to a good 3d artist, who converts the scene to 3d and uses the original pic as the base for the texturing.. that way you keep the original feel of the good artwork, but you're no longer stuck with a static 2d picture that has little use in the demo. The coder's job is then to add that bit of magic that brings the scene to life.
added on the 2005-05-07 20:22:18 by psonice psonice
2d pics could be used the way Madwizards use them. The integrate them as part of a scene and it looks amazing. Mawi use photo manips mostly, but handpainted stuff could be used the same way.
Or Haujobb demos. I love some of Visualice's demos and he uses loads of 2d stuff. But even demos like Mikrostrange and Strange Feelings do a fucking great job of using 2d painted gfx and effects and those demos look damn cool even today!
shane: there's a big difference though between a good background picture, and a good foreground picture. One complements what's going on in the rest of the demo nicely, the other is something worthy of showing off on its own, and it's that kind of 2d that's been getting rarer lately. Good background work is always a good thing, but its great to see a really stunning 2d pic in a demo. Definately with you when it comes to the haujobb demos though, and there have been plenty of others too, that plastic demo with the sea is a good example, and mandula's live evil too. Oh, and I can't miss out the end part of orange's ibiza experience.. even though the pictures are all fucked up by the effect, they still hit the spot perfectly.
added on the 2005-05-08 00:13:44 by psonice psonice
Good point Psonice. I can't remember the last standalone pic used in a demo that had any "wow factor". The few pics in demos I do see have that rushed and simplistic painted look that doesn't do much for me.