watching demos on linux is possible :)

category: general [glöplog]
can you tell me the difference between a FreeBSD and a Linux ???

by the way, people choose linux not as a demo platform, just as a better alternative than windows, and for anything ...

personally i find linux better for programming and modelling, which are the things i use my pc for ...
added on the 2002-07-09 14:47:29 by flure flure
Damn it, learn to be good advocates. It helps alot!

I would choose linux as a demoplatform because all APIs are free open and available, because it would be easy for me to port anything to any platform, because I would not have to pay a license for the OS or the compiler.

I would choose java as a demoplatform because it makes whatever I do readily runnable to almost any platform, because it's a challenge to overcome the inherent limitations and speed problems of java, because I am an object orientation freak.

I would choose windows as a demoplatform because I want to make things fast, I want everyone to be able to run my demo (everyone has windows) because hardware drivers are faster developed and more optimized for this platform, because today whether you like it or not it's a standard

I would choose gameboy as a demoplatform because I want to challenge myself in doing much with a very weak machine, also try to revive the unforgettable oldskool times where every cpu clock mattered.

I would choose playstation/x-box/xyz console as a demoplatform because I want to compete in code optimization having standard hardware with powerfull graphics and sound processors and because game development is actually what I want to do with my life.

I would choose CPC (hello Opti! :-) as my demoplatform because I am simply in love with this machine and I grew up with it and nothing comes even close to giving me the same feeling that machine gave me when I was young.

There! Want more? I'm sure I can find other reasons. The point is: What turns you on?
added on the 2002-07-09 17:48:55 by moT moT

moT, let's have a beer together if we ever meet :)

by the way, i prefer linux exactly for the reasons you gave, plus one thing : it's sexier than windows (but i already said that :)
added on the 2002-07-09 18:05:25 by flure flure
Yeah, stuffed windows logos are just worse masturbation toys than those cute 1 meter tall Tux puppets.

Makes me wonder... since i was in contact with women, most operating systems somehow lost their sexuality for me... what am I doing wrong? :)))
added on the 2002-07-09 18:43:14 by kb_ kb_
flure: I wonder what tools Linux could possibly offer, that beat Visual Studio, 3dsmax, LightWave or Maya...
Pray tell.
added on the 2002-07-09 20:30:39 by Scali Scali
flure: There is a notable difference between render-to-texture (WGL_ARB_render_to_texture) and copy-to-texture (glCopyTexSubImage2D()). Most notably speed. :-) (And with GL_NV_texture_rectangle, I'd suppose you could do 640x480 render-to-texture etc. as well...)

Scali: Maya exists for Linux ;-) Regarding Visual Studio -- well, there are IDEs etc., but probably none that are coming close to the robustness and usefulness of VS. I much prefer gcc over MS' C/C++ compiler, though :-)
added on the 2002-07-09 20:56:23 by Sesse Sesse
added on the 2002-07-09 20:59:51 by _-_-__ _-_-__
Sesse: Maya being available for Linux is not a good reason for using Linux, since it's also available for Windows...
As for gcc... last time I looked it was noticably slower than MS' compiler, and Intels compiler at that...
Both in compile time, and the performance of the generated code (from 20-60% slower, if memory serves me, anyway, you can probably google for benchmarks and see).

The only good IDE I've seen for Linux is Kylix... but I found it very slow to use (even on a dual P3 800), and well, it's Pascal, not C/C++ code.
But maybe there is or will be C++ Builder for Linux aswell, that would be nice... especially if you could use the Intel compiler with it.
added on the 2002-07-09 21:52:27 by Scali Scali
Scali: No, but you implied you couldn't do 3D stuff in Linux since Maya wasn't available for it.

As for gcc, GNU has a standing policy against doing optimizations merely for improving performance in synthetic benchmarks, so do real-life stuff (your own code would be a good start) if you want to benchmark things. The latest series (3.1.x) are getting better and better at performance too... icc is still among the wildest there, though :-) Personally, I don't really feel the need for an IDE -- I use vim+make, and every time I have to use Visual Studio I choke ;-)

Anyhow, no, the availability of commercial software (or demos) is _not_ the reason why you'd choose Linux over Windows. :-)
added on the 2002-07-09 22:12:50 by Sesse Sesse
argh! captain we're facing a Windows<->Linux discussion!

btw: for the definitive flame concerning linux check this (if you speak german).
added on the 2002-07-09 22:16:35 by Spin Spin
Sesse: Nice try, but it wasn't a synthetic benchmark...
They just compiled some programs (I think they were database engines and the like), and timed execution times of those programs.
Also, I did test with my own code... my favourite is an iDCT routine... I once clocked 60% difference between VC++ 6.0 and gcc 2.95.
Especially in float performance, gcc was disastrous.
gcc 3.0 beta was a lot better, but not quite up to the VC++ standard at the time.
And yes, I used all optimization flags I could find.

So no, it's not just a question of improving performance in synthetic benchmarks (which incidently would also improve performance in similar real-world scenarios aswell, so it's a non-argument anyway).. Besides, do MS and Intel even do that? Or is that only claimed by the other side, as a lot of things are?

Anyway, I don't care for a discussion, I like to get the facts straight...
Besides, it's not a Linux<->Windows discussion, as Intels compiler is available for both platforms.

I will leave it at that.
added on the 2002-07-09 22:55:42 by Scali Scali
Thank god I know Deutsch, it's funny to read that message Spin :)
added on the 2002-07-09 23:09:28 by Optimus Optimus
Optimus: I was just about to post a message along the lines of "this is one of the few times in my life I can appreciate I know German"... :-D
added on the 2002-07-09 23:12:37 by Sesse Sesse
dammit. i was hoping for a good flamewar.
however, as for example "These security related updates may disable your ability to copy and/or play Secure Content and use other software on your computer", i've had it. i don't anymore care if it's better software or not.
added on the 2002-07-10 00:23:04 by 216 216
_216_: Those are *exactly* the reasons why I think the day when my primary os will be linux is really not far.

Scali: what's wrong with Pascal? It's a wonderful language, well laid out, readable even by a 4-year old, compiled and almost standard! :-)

(good flamewars are so easy to make :-)
added on the 2002-07-10 02:17:47 by moT moT
BB Image
added on the 2002-07-10 02:50:19 by Sesse Sesse
It all comes down to: The Masses Are Asses
added on the 2002-07-10 03:24:07 by hd hd
Wow, didn't know there would be this much response. As for an answer to why you would want to run windows demos on linux? Well, I don't have windows but still like to watch demos :)
added on the 2002-07-10 05:08:19 by davisbm davisbm
davisbm: Why wouldn't you have Windows? Been living under a rock? :)
I mean, get real. In this world, it's like saying "I don't have any cutlery, nobody uses cutlery, you can eat with your hands too".

As for Pascal, I'm not even going to comment on that. Kernigham already commented on Pascal nicely: http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/bwk-on-pascal.html
Go flame him, we all know what a lamer Kernigham is :)
added on the 2002-07-10 09:13:45 by Scali Scali
Scal_, the paper is from 1981 and most of the described limitations were gone in Turbo Pascal 4 and up, like, they incorporated everything C and ObjectiveC were able to do into the language to have some grounds for flaming :)

Still, i'm so f*cking glad that I switched to C++ after school
added on the 2002-07-10 10:44:14 by kb_ kb_
Show me a good recent demo written in anything but C, C++ and assembler. :-) (I haven't seen a good Java demo in a while, but Java is really a different... umm, platform ;-) )
added on the 2002-07-10 19:11:13 by Sesse Sesse
maybe i'll try ada and switch if i like it.
added on the 2002-07-10 19:20:46 by 216 216
I haven't seen any recent Java demos... I think Java is rather dead, especially scene-wise :(
But Godog by Komplex ( http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=888 ) is one of my all-time favourites.

I suppose you've seen that already though :)
I once liked Java as a platform, but the MS/Sun stuff ended up butchering it all... Perhaps the Java sceners feel the same way about it...
added on the 2002-07-10 19:24:13 by Scali Scali
biggest issues with java:
- jre to install, not even standard anymore in windows
- stupid sound support before 1.4 (where it's not even
brightly working on other platforms than windows)
- no decent support for fullscreen/video modes before 1.4
- anal retentive language (good for business, not terse or expressive
enough for fun, at least for me it matters)
- speed until now... (why didn't they implement opengl binding in
the standard jdk)

added on the 2002-07-10 19:35:19 by _-_-__ _-_-__