Diskmag editors worldwide, unite!
category: general [glöplog]
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I don't think it would be a good idea publishing these articles in Hugi. After all, they haven't been written for Hugi. We should found a new diskmag with a new title - maybe "World United", "United Diskmags", or "The Magazine". "The Magazine" would perhaps be a great choice for the reason that this was the working title of the project of The E-Mag Network (TEN), which was supposed to unite all active demoscene-related diskmags back in 1998 (but never materialized).Quote:All of these articles could be released as one diskmag.
now which mag we are talking about? everyone can guess twice.
@All diskmag editors:
Let's found a new "E-Mag Network", let's help each other translate our articles to English, and let's make a new diskmag together!
I'd offer Chris Dragan's Panorama engine for this project, and I'd be ready to take over the editing, formatting etc.
Just drop me a mail or answer in this thread if you're interested!
@monk
There are surely some people who know Polish well and would be ready to translate Polish articles to English. Unfortunately, I myself don't speak Polish.
help in case of translation via network would be a good idea, but a c64, amiga diskmag with panorama engine? I dont know?!?
Well, the idea is to republish articles from already existing diskmags. This may include c64, amiga, atari etc. too.
I think an optimal demoscene mag should be available in multiple formats, such as online, diskmag and printmag. Each of these formats has its own benefits.
Another idea for a "perfect mag" would be some kind of collaborative editing, where several people would work for a single article (something like wiki), correcting errors and improving the content. Of course, all articles should also pass some kind of minimal quality check before being accepted to the final release version.
And about the old diskmags: there should definitely be some kind of a major ripping+indexing project for putting the old mags online. This would make it much easier to find articles about given topics and it would perhaps be helpful for some research projects as well. (Of course, for historical completeness, the project could also include things like scrolltexts from older demos :)
Another idea for a "perfect mag" would be some kind of collaborative editing, where several people would work for a single article (something like wiki), correcting errors and improving the content. Of course, all articles should also pass some kind of minimal quality check before being accepted to the final release version.
And about the old diskmags: there should definitely be some kind of a major ripping+indexing project for putting the old mags online. This would make it much easier to find articles about given topics and it would perhaps be helpful for some research projects as well. (Of course, for historical completeness, the project could also include things like scrolltexts from older demos :)
in my opinion most diskmags haven't realized yet that they need to change/adapt a lot of their content to the new habits of the readership. The structure of the scene is a lot different from the old days, yet so many diskmags still offer the same like back then. Just my 2 cents...
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Possibly. Diskmag (optimal for reading on screen), PDF (optimal for printing) and HTML (for quick access to articles from everywhere where Net access is available), that would probably be the optimum. I think an optimal demoscene mag should be available in multiple formats, such as online, diskmag and printmag. Each of these formats has its own benefits.
But I'm not sure if a PDF version would be really necessary. Concerning Hugi, it's possible to print articles right from the diskmag. The print-outs won't look well-formatted like a custom-layouted PDF would, but still... It's also possible to print the HTML pages.
On the other hand, creating a PDF version of a magazine would be quite a lot of additional work. All articles would have to be layouted once again. That's work for an additional editor; I wouldn't like to do this myself in case of Hugi.
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Your suggestion reminds me of "peer review". IMHO that's a bit too exaggerated. Peer reviewing may be in place for scientific journals, okay. But diskmags aren't scientific journals. Another idea for a "perfect mag" would be some kind of collaborative editing, where several people would work for a single article (something like wiki), correcting errors and improving the content. Of course, all articles should also pass some kind of minimal quality check before being accepted to the final release version.
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As said, the idea is good, but you're perfectly aware that this is going to be a huge amount of work! Would you want to do that yourself?And about the old diskmags: there should definitely be some kind of a major ripping+indexing project for putting the old mags online. This would make it much easier to find articles about given topics and it would perhaps be helpful for some research projects as well.
Hello!!! PDF version is useless when you have an (X)HTML version. Simply make a stylesheet for 'printer' media and voilà.
And to be honest I wonder why diskmag continue to use custom formats while XHTML does the job perfectly.
A dismag engine could easily parse articles created in plain simple XHTML, and display them its way. The readers could then either read them in the diskmag ( to enjoy the custom interface and music ) or in their browser. And it would make the task easier for articles authors as they won't need to use a new obscure tool/format.
And to be honest I wonder why diskmag continue to use custom formats while XHTML does the job perfectly.
A dismag engine could easily parse articles created in plain simple XHTML, and display them its way. The readers could then either read them in the diskmag ( to enjoy the custom interface and music ) or in their browser. And it would make the task easier for articles authors as they won't need to use a new obscure tool/format.
I'm afraid that a generic printer stylesheet isn't enough if you want to produce a nice-looking printmag (check out Becanne 04, for example) from a bunch of XHTML files.
Of course, automated layouting can produce acceptable results, but it's always better to have some real "human touch" in the typesetting.
Of course, automated layouting can produce acceptable results, but it's always better to have some real "human touch" in the typesetting.
p01: That's a brilliant idea! I had the same idea, too. But Panorama would need to be altered in order to make XHTML support possible. I'd try to do it if I had the sources, but I don't have them.
viznut: A generic printer stylesheet would be enjoyable to have an easy to read print out, but nothing forbids diskmag creators/designers to make an alternate printer stylesheet that is more classy with better typography, layout ...
Diskmag Eds of world unite.
This will be your final fight.
This will be your final fight.
@ viznut/pwp
for Jurassicpack editing we already use a wiki... so we werent that outdated :D
@Axel
and yes we should do a new diskmag style... JP is working on it... at least on AMiGA platform ;D
for Jurassicpack editing we already use a wiki... so we werent that outdated :D
@Axel
and yes we should do a new diskmag style... JP is working on it... at least on AMiGA platform ;D
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nothing forbids diskmag creators/designers to make an alternate printer stylesheet that is more classy with better typography, layout...
Except for the the fact that if common browser engines can't even get a proper baseline for print styles together (backgrounds, how I miss ye), would you seriously expect a coder to do any better for something as unrewarding as a diskmag parser?
Plus, for creative control over typography, you'd have to clutter your content with so many nested XHTML elements that you'd lose the legibility of the source document in no time.
Unfeasible, as much as the idea appeals to just do things with XHTML/CSS.
You've got a point about support of printer stylesheets. However I tend to think sceners are more tech savy than my mother and use a standard compliant browser.
If the wild typography is limited to reasonable amount of content, image replacement techniques are no problem. Heck, to the hell with ugly IR techniques, let's use CSSSelector{ content:url(wetYourPantTypography.png); } which should be rather easy to parse in the diskmag engine.
In becanne 04, which was cited above, typography wise there is hardly more than a few ::first-letter.
If the wild typography is limited to reasonable amount of content, image replacement techniques are no problem. Heck, to the hell with ugly IR techniques, let's use CSSSelector{ content:url(wetYourPantTypography.png); } which should be rather easy to parse in the diskmag engine.
In becanne 04, which was cited above, typography wise there is hardly more than a few ::first-letter.
Axel:
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What are your ideas?in my opinion most diskmags haven't realized yet that they need to change/adapt a lot of their content to the new habits of the readership. The structure of the scene is a lot different from the old days, yet so many diskmags still offer the same like back then. Just my 2 cents...
can't talk about them yet, sorry.
btw, the archive that you mentioned for the topic of this thread doesn't sound like a bad idea, i just think it would be a hell lot of work.
btw, the archive that you mentioned for the topic of this thread doesn't sound like a bad idea, i just think it would be a hell lot of work.
Axel: It's not supposed to be an archive. It's supposed to be a diskmag containing English translations of articles from non-English diskmags. This diskmag could be released on a semi-regular basis.
adok, as an archive it would be a good idea.as a diskmag, it would be a damn stupid idea.
Why? It would make sense if several diskmags in non-English language were still released more or less regularly. Then the best of the articles of all of these magazines could be combined, translated to English and released in one mag.
I just wonder how many non-English language diskmags are still released. In the pouet archive the most recent ones (since January 2004) are:
Savage #8 (Polish, May 2006)
Incube #2 (Russian, October 2005)
Digital Talk #75 (German, October 2005)
The Voice #3 (Polish, August 2005)
Savage #7 (Polish, March 2005)
Hugi.GER #5 (German, February 2005)
Incube #1 (Russian, December 2004)
Savage #6 (Polish, December 2004)
Kritik #4 (Russian, November 2004)
Becanne #3 (Spanish, October 2004)
Savage #5 (Polish, September 2004)
Savage #4 (Polish, June 2004)
Becanne #2 (Spanish, May 2004)
Savage #3 (Polish, April 2004)
Savage #2 (Polish, April 2004)
Savage #1 (Polish, February 2004)
Becanne #1 (Spanish, January 2004)
So there are some, but not many. However, maybe I did not recognize some as being non-English, and there may also be diskmags that are not listed at pouet.
I just wonder how many non-English language diskmags are still released. In the pouet archive the most recent ones (since January 2004) are:
Savage #8 (Polish, May 2006)
Incube #2 (Russian, October 2005)
Digital Talk #75 (German, October 2005)
The Voice #3 (Polish, August 2005)
Savage #7 (Polish, March 2005)
Hugi.GER #5 (German, February 2005)
Incube #1 (Russian, December 2004)
Savage #6 (Polish, December 2004)
Kritik #4 (Russian, November 2004)
Becanne #3 (Spanish, October 2004)
Savage #5 (Polish, September 2004)
Savage #4 (Polish, June 2004)
Becanne #2 (Spanish, May 2004)
Savage #3 (Polish, April 2004)
Savage #2 (Polish, April 2004)
Savage #1 (Polish, February 2004)
Becanne #1 (Spanish, January 2004)
So there are some, but not many. However, maybe I did not recognize some as being non-English, and there may also be diskmags that are not listed at pouet.
HEY. DAMN. DUDEZ. THE BESTEST DISKMAG IS STILL "MANIAC" !1 BUT ITS IS GERMAN TWO !
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However I tend to think sceners are more tech savy than my mother and use a standard compliant browser.
Quit fooling yourself. There's still a lot of demosceners running around using the Blue E. I guess that's what you get with a social circle that thrives on quick hacks :)
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If the wild typography is limited to reasonable amount of content, image replacement techniques are no problem. Heck, to the hell with ugly IR techniques, let's use CSSSelector{ content:url(wetYourPantTypography.png); } which should be rather easy to parse in the diskmag engine.
I'm sure you can restrain yourself, but have you actually worked with pure, non-technical designers before? They can't. They'll do everything just out-of-spec, set fire to your food, rape the house and eat your mom. Not out of malice, but simply because what they see is a canvas, not a set of content.
And image replacement brings a risk along with the benefits you hope to reap: you're essentially doing the layout twice. Once in the design phase, then in a painful transition that mixes images with content. Face it, you'd eventually be doing cut-up bitmaps only, hiding the text for visual appeal. I'm not sure if that's the brightest idea evar :|
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In becanne 04, which was cited above, typography wise there is hardly more than a few ::first-letter.
I'm not sure Becanne is representative of what some layout monkeys will actually do if they had half the chance.
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I just wonder how many non-English language diskmags are still released. In the pouet archive the most recent ones (since January 2004) are:
[...]
Hugi.GER #5 (German, February 2005)
[...]
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German language, not scene-related. Note that I didn't add this to pouet.
added on the 2005-02-07 by Adok
shifter: You're probably right. Being in the web since a while my vision is undoubtly skewed. However I know how designers don't give a shit about technical constraints, I worked 3 years in an advertising company.
People in my 'social circle' are rather die hard supporters of open standards and do not stand any compromise :\
As tempting as it may seem, IMHO having a really creative/rich layout/typography is not must have for a diskmag. Content should prevail over presentaion.
Just my 2 øre
People in my 'social circle' are rather die hard supporters of open standards and do not stand any compromise :\
As tempting as it may seem, IMHO having a really creative/rich layout/typography is not must have for a diskmag. Content should prevail over presentaion.
Just my 2 øre
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People in my 'social circle' are rather die hard supporters of open standards and do not stand any compromise :\
Where do I sign up? :'(
I agree with your content mantra, but it' just that with media="print", you're opening a portal to hell and beyond.