Revision 2015 - 3rd to 6th April - Saarbrücken, Germany

category: parties [glöplog]
Thus we can conclude that Amiga and C64 should go in the PC demo compo. :)
Swell ... (this is the .47 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and it will blow your head clean off)
added on the 2015-01-27 11:38:28 by curt_cool curt_cool
Haha, weren't the Amiga and C64 considered 'home computers'? So we should have a PC demo compo and a Home Computer demo compo! :D

What I meant is the term 'PC' is maybe outdated and ton has a point about usage of devices in TYOOL 2015.
added on the 2015-01-27 11:52:18 by okkie okkie
But we're not talking about "usage", we're talking about capabilities.
added on the 2015-01-27 11:56:43 by Gargaj Gargaj
I agree, the definition of PC is too complicated, we should call the whole thing off.
added on the 2015-01-27 12:37:53 by ClySuva ClySuva
Surely if if it runs on the specified compo machine its a pc demo. otherwise not. :)

Then we're back to retro (amiga/c64/speccy) mobile (iphone/android etc) vs wild (fridge micros, raspberry pi, LED mashups and everything else). Logic dictates that if any one particular platform swamps the wild category due to a popularity spike, it could* be a comp of its own.

*(maybe not this year depending upon advanced notice/organisational constraints)
added on the 2015-01-27 12:39:11 by Canopy Canopy
And how would that get shown on the big screen? a feed from an HDD camera? submitted captures from an emulator? not all those devices have HDMI output, and not all can run at the refresh rates dictated by the beamer operators.

I think the the 'class' of GPU on those platforms dictates they should be separate from PC desktops. Advertise as a mobile/GPU/SOC category. If there is not sufficient volume to run as a comp then merge it into wild.

I think those two are technical questions and could be easily answered -
- Not counting miracast (why not, actually) almost all hi end android devices either have an hdmi option (Shield) or MHL.
-In fact i'm quite sure that pretty much half of released PC demos even in 2014 could be delivered on a modern $1k phone. That's one of the reasons i'd like to be able to compete in mainstream compo instead of wild.

Regarding Britelite's point on jailbreaking, well, it might be a problem to run such prod, but OTOH i just don't think it's related to my proposal. Not everyone can run a linux demo either. Yes probably you can't just drop a zip on scene.org and there are options to have an account and release on Google Play like Kewlers, or delivering for jailbroken, or rooted, or whatever, but i'm rather talking about the company you're competing with. It's just wrong when you'r considered wild on ios/android in 2015 imo.
added on the 2015-01-27 13:26:43 by ton ton
It's just wrong when you'r considered wild on ios/android in 2015 imo.

Maybe in a world-wide consumer sense. But in the demoscene context it's completely logical to keep it as it is. When we have 4-6 Android demo in every wild compo - THEN it's time to create a new category for it. Also imo, obviously.
added on the 2015-01-27 13:32:09 by D.Fox D.Fox
could be delivered on a modern $1k phone

I actually agree to a point that some stuff could have been. However, what of that standard has actually been done on mobile?

Whilst I agree that people are using these platforms day to day more than PC, and that they do have some potential more demos are definitely not being made for those platforms. The PC demo category has a level playing field set by the target system, and mixing devices/capabilities makes it harder to judge.

There are under 10 demo's for either iOS or Android released last year according to a quick Prod search on here.

So the future of mobile is not looking good.

Two suggestions.

Growth in this area should be inspired by wild mobile demo's proving what is possible on devices. Inspire people to make mobile demos, then there will be enough competition to make a category worthwhile.

Smaller parties can combine the demo category, but the biggies like revision/assembly etc have to set a gold standard/benchmark to remain relevant.
added on the 2015-01-27 13:39:42 by Canopy Canopy
Doesn't assembly throw in all the demos in one compo now?
added on the 2015-01-27 13:47:34 by okkie okkie
The PC demo category has a level playing field

That's not exactly true, DX11 demos running on a Titan will have a considerable advantage over OpenGL 1.0 stuff on a 8800.
added on the 2015-01-27 13:52:36 by Gargaj Gargaj
What I mean is that the compo machine at a party is the glass ceiling specwise. (speed/gpu/memory) At an individual event, where the compo machines spec's are pre-announced a 'cutting edge' production can be tuned to run well on that system and everyone is judged on the same system - a level playing field. Like exists permanently for classic home computer platforms.
added on the 2015-01-27 14:00:10 by Canopy Canopy
You could have that mobile phones, just get the fastest mobile device (Shield tablet or something) you can.
added on the 2015-01-27 14:05:59 by Gargaj Gargaj
I agree. :)

Thats how a mobile category judged independently on its own merits/limitations should be done. But they do not not belong in the PC category where the graphics card like the titan has more memory than shield tablet does in its entirety :)
added on the 2015-01-27 14:12:48 by Canopy Canopy
Doesn't assembly throw in all the demos in one compo now?

Depends on what you mean by "all the demos" :)
added on the 2015-01-27 14:37:25 by britelite britelite
well there already was a mobile compo years ago and after a few years symbian and j2me demos it slowly vanished/got merged again.
maybe it would work to revive it with a new focus ("tablet compo", anyone?") but so far i fail to see the disadvantage of having those kind of demos in the real wild category.
of course you can always do a web-based demo that runs on (most) mobile platforms as well as those are officially part of the newschool/pc compo.
added on the 2015-01-27 14:54:10 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
but so far i fail to see the disadvantage of having those kind of demos in the real wild category

Real wild tends to be about "oh, check out the weird fucking platform I managed to make something for" much more than "hey, check this cool *demo* I made". :)
Well yeah, allowing amiga in the asm demo compo and having amiga winner there is a good example of that GPU/compute power isn't really a threshold and shouldn't be considered as one.
added on the 2015-01-27 15:01:53 by ton ton
Real wild tends to be about "oh, check out the weird fucking platform I managed to make something for" much more than "hey, check this cool *demo* I made". :)

exactly. it feels strange when you're going to compete with your pretty much classic entry which can be run on a device in everyone's pocket versus the youtube video of lft's c64 wired into the piano with dancing robots or whatever. ( I love lft!!)
added on the 2015-01-27 15:07:11 by ton ton
i think android as wild is fair as it's is different to lets say the productions made on/for a typical machine-monitor setup that are PC demos. it's still not the mainstream device people develop demos for. so it's less a technical and more a supply-demand issue to call it 'wild' :)
added on the 2015-01-27 15:28:58 by maali maali
Real wild tends to be about "oh, check out the weird fucking platform I managed to make something for" much more than "hey, check this cool *demo* I made". :)

I think you're exaggerating a bit there. Looking at the wild compos of previous Revisions, there's an average of about 2 "look at my weird fucking platform" releases versus 6 actual demos.

Admittedly, the "look at my weird fucking platform" releases have consistently won the compo so far... but I wonder how much of that is really down to the audience's bias towards platform hacks, and how much is simply that Revision hasn't had a "killer" mobile / console / mIRC / Raspberry Pi / whatever demo yet.
added on the 2015-01-27 15:40:58 by gasman gasman
(make that "actual demos on mainstream platforms". I didn't mean to imply that weird platform hacks are not worthy of being considered Actual Demos.)
added on the 2015-01-27 15:46:42 by gasman gasman
lets just all agree that demos for ti calculators arent fun to look at or listen to ;)
added on the 2015-01-27 15:51:32 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
personally id probably make more demos for android if there were more dedicated compos like nvscene's. i don't really want to compete against realwild novelty/freakshows, and if i'm going to be in with the pc demos i'll make a pc demo. admittedly that's a circular problem, because there's not going to be any dedicated compos if nobody makes any demos to justify it.
added on the 2015-01-27 16:02:33 by smash smash
hotel booked and decision made for at least 7 Danes to arrive. We are gonna be at the Crystal most of us, and now we just need to secure some form of transportation since half our brigade are breeding.
added on the 2015-01-27 16:31:48 by nic0 nic0