Demoscene social issues

category: general [glöplog]
another note: the only code acceptable on demoparties is MACHINE CODE

NOW I am afraid of a "naked compo".
added on the 2015-04-18 00:42:38 by JTZ JTZ
Dress code: Pants off.
added on the 2015-04-18 01:23:15 by arcane arcane
Whilst Symposium '96 was my first major demoparty in Germany, the experience that both myself and CiH had at MS2k2 was not good. Lots of noise (a lot more than at Revision) and a general bad atmosphere along with the questionable quality of some of the entries at the compos meant that we avoided the big Easter parties for a number of years.

I'd concur with Felice here, I didn't attend this year, but this excerpt from my 2013 Revision diary is below. I was pleasantly surprised with how it went down. Also happy with the 2014 party too.

There seems to be a gradual toning down of excesses over the years. Some of what is left can be described as the bare bones of ritual activity. Reading about memories of very early parties resurrected in a handy Pouet thread makes me wonder how any organised activity actually took place at all? Also how the organisers of these parties managed to evade legal action and prison? (Physical violence and urination on people, attempted arson, hard drug usage, neo-nazi's, monitor defenestration from a third floor and the comparatively light relief of smoke bombs set off to delay competition deadlines were all mentioned.)

I suspect that, to the vast relief of most sceners, none of this is missed.
added on the 2015-04-18 01:34:32 by CiH CiH
NOW I am afraid of a "naked compo".

/me has flashbacks to BP04. Never again...
added on the 2015-04-18 02:12:19 by dotwaffle dotwaffle
so, how did you like your cat testicles this morning? what, you dont eat that? you sissie!

i tried bull testicles and that was very ossom. i'd happily grill those cats and eat them with you :o)
added on the 2015-04-18 02:15:37 by groepaz groepaz
First up - I've never been to a demoparty. Would've loved to when I was 20 years younger, with 20 years less responsibility etc. but too busy working, fucking, drinking and having fun (in no particular order!) at the time.

Now, I'd love to go to Sydney sometime - leave passes permitting but what stops me forking out thousands of dollars for a trip to Europe is the attitude some of you have shown me (and others) on here.
Full disclosure? I fucking hate writing code. I taught myself asm and C when I was younger as a hobby. Then as I worked and my business started to pickup I found that a lot of my clients had (shitty) proprietary software that was often outdated and no longer did what they wanted it to do - so I had a niche in being able to inject code and often cobble together very ugly fixes to already crappy software. Basically it's a chore, I try to avoid it - often I send my clients to a couple of friends of mine who are far better programmers who will set them up with some nice new, shiny software rather than my patchwork stuff. It also has very little to do with what I do as a business in general so usually is a side project at best.

A few years ago I came across this site and community. I had friends at the time who were into demo stuff and I (naively) thought that such a community would be fairly open to anybody with some coding exp. How wrong I was. Not only is there a real and entrenched "l337" attitude held by many of the members of the scene/pouet but sadly it's often the people who've been around the longest who are the least welcoming.

For a scene that is niche at best, limited by the very nature of it's genre (asm isn't exactly the goto language for programming any more is it), is populated by people who often display a variety of social skills (we can't all be basement-dwelling Fedora-wearing neckbeards now can we?) and is in decline (knowing how to do some nice ascii to put into an nfo isn't exactly at the bleeding edge now is it?) you'd think that its members would be more open to accepting new members.
Instead it's often the reverse. Usually any new idea/point of view is met with derision, disdain and often outright abuse. And as I said - it's often the people who've been around the longest (and should be showing leadership and initiative) who're leading the charge and proving themselves to be the least open-minded.

In short - if some of you here behave in RL the same way you have here towards me, there's no way I'm going to take the time, financial or physical effort to travel to another continent to spend a few day "socializing" with you.

This of course is my own personal point of view and has been shaped by my behavior and the the behavior of others towards me. It should be noted tho that for every 2-3 l337ist scener fuckwit that's been rude or disrespectful towards me there has been at least 1 or 2 who have taken the time to say hello and put a some effort into getting to know each other. To you guys I say "Cheers m8! ;]"

inb4 "Go make a demo about it."
added on the 2015-04-18 02:20:31 by ringofyre ringofyre
Bull. Shit.

ringofyre, I don't give a flying fuck about how much your flights cost, or whether you're any good at coding, or which branch of geek culture you choose to insult next... I class many of these people as my friends and I won't have people calling us cunts when you haven't even had the decency to see what you're attacking first hand.

The demoscene is about demos. If you like demos, some are inspired to create demos. Others meet up and watch each others demos. Others get involved and do music, graphics, vodka, whatever.

It gets bigger and bigger and bigger until you now have hundreds of people watching demos, getting drunk, having a good time. That's a demoparty. It's not professional (though scalability demands a certain level of professionalism from the organisers which in my estimation are unsurpassed when it comes to the larger parties of Revision etc) and it most certainly isn't "organised" in the sense of "you will conform to our rules on acceptability".

I don't drink at demoparties any more, haven't for quite a long time. I avoid those who are plastered and looking like they're about to spew, but fuck it, it's a demoparty. If someone's being racist, they get marginalised. If they don't change, generally they're not welcome. That's how things are treated in the scene. If things get REALLY bad, they're told they're can't come back.

The demoscene is not perfect. But fuckin' hell, it's a lot better than it used to be.
added on the 2015-04-18 02:30:00 by dotwaffle dotwaffle
i dont buy this "leet" bullcrap in 2015. you just have to look at the list of users here (or other big scene sites) to see that it is nothing like that anymore (and if you'd visit a party and look at the audience, you could see it all yourself). and contrary to some other people i am not sure if that is a good thing at all. the scene needs more competition, and less of this backpettinghipstereichelstreichel attitude. bah.
added on the 2015-04-18 02:33:33 by groepaz groepaz
Oh, and the most offensive thing I've read in quite a while was from an article linked to in this thread:

For an event this size, I expected them to have a code. I didn’t even bother to check!

Right, so you want a document in place, that no-one who will contravene it will ever read, that details minutely what is/isn't acceptable... This isn't a fucking conference. It's a party, built around a culture that is narcissistic at absolute best. When bad shit happens, I generally think organisers deal with it -- and people have been thrown out before based on their behaviour.

I'm not saying "grow a thicker skin", I'm saying "you knew what you were getting into". We're so much better than we were when I started watching demos 20-ish years ago. Still work to be done, but a document is the absolute last thing the scene needs.
added on the 2015-04-18 02:37:17 by dotwaffle dotwaffle
(and, of course, simultaneously agreeing with gasman on HALLO WAS in the early morning, and sympathising with Gargaj over vomit... that's why I hotel it these days :) )
added on the 2015-04-18 02:39:35 by dotwaffle dotwaffle
I won't have people calling us cunts when you haven't even had the decency to see what you're attacking first hand.

Actually I haven't called anyone a cunt. And I'm not attacking demoparties.

I'm pointing out that people on this site can be incredibly rude and disrespectful, especially to people they perceive as 'not fitting in' and it's due to that online behavior that's drawn me to the decision that I wouldn't want to meet some of them in real life. I generally will try to be polite and respectful towards people I meet (online or not) but when they're rude to me online why on earth would I want to actually take the time to socialize with them in person?
added on the 2015-04-18 02:41:33 by ringofyre ringofyre
I also have said nothing about wanting a document of rules/regulations - that's all you. If that's some point someones else has made that you're replying to then fairplay - otherwise please don't try to put words in my mouth.
added on the 2015-04-18 02:43:56 by ringofyre ringofyre

ringofyre information
first name: Attention-whorring
last name: Fairy-Telling_Drama-Queen

what did you expect really? =P
added on the 2015-04-18 02:46:39 by groepaz groepaz
BB Image
added on the 2015-04-18 02:52:13 by ringofyre ringofyre
I fell into a burnin' ring of fire
I went down, down, down
And the flames went higher,
And it burns, burns, burns,
The ring of fire, the ring of fire.
added on the 2015-04-18 02:54:30 by havoc havoc
This isn't a fucking conference.

In the case of the article you're quoting: yes it fucking is.

The suggestion of applying a code of conduct to demoparties is mine, and not what that blog post was about, so please direct your scorn towards me instead.

And yes, I *know* that a conference-style CoC isn't going to fly in the demoscene. I said that from the outset. This is why I want to have a discussion about what *can* work.

God, so much hate for a document that hasn't even been defined yet...
added on the 2015-04-18 02:57:58 by gasman gasman
I've been to FOSDEM a number of times -- I know what it's like there, and believe it or not I tend to find Revision (and ASM, NVScene, Sundown etc) "more" opening and welcome. But (with the exception of the seminar areas at certain parties) it is absolutely not a conference.

I can't speak for others on the matter, but the existence of that document personifies everything I dislike about (typically American) tech conferences. I feel incredibly strongly that the disorganised style to a demoparty is that most attractive thing to me about it. The delays in the compos, the bonfire, the hardware faults... I love it all. It feels "honest" and "real". A document published that assumed I was an arsehole and told me what would happen to me if I contravened it... I wouldn't want to be part of such an event.

Ultimately, I go to demoparties for two reasons:

1. The demos.
2. The people.

The demos constantly change. You can't change people with paper. All that paper does is give you sufficient authority to kick someone out, which happens already.

I mean no ill will towards you, gasman, I've just had very aggravating experiences with self-proclaimed SJWs in the open-source world who believe that policies on paper fix everything, and then violate the spirit of that paper immediately as they brow-beat people with their new found power.

I'm here for demos. I just so happen to really enjoy the company of people at demoparties too.
added on the 2015-04-18 03:19:36 by dotwaffle dotwaffle
dotwaffle: well spoken, come to Nordlicht ;D
added on the 2015-04-18 04:00:36 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
I'm happy now, that i never participated a demoparty, while i read your storys here. Wtf...
added on the 2015-04-18 04:12:54 by .. ..
I'm happy now, that i never participated a demoparty, while i read your storys here. Wtf...

wrong conclusion, really...
added on the 2015-04-18 04:17:57 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
Not the `sexism`argument again.. haha :D I love how it's always the men who bring it up and never the women.. because guess what, people? There is none! Get over it!
added on the 2015-04-18 04:23:56 by jESSiKA jESSiKA
Also fuck a code of conduct! Might as well hold a party at the local Marriott in that case..
added on the 2015-04-18 04:26:27 by jESSiKA jESSiKA
jcl: but we need to share a beer! ;)

...or 15, but you are on no-sugar! :-)
added on the 2015-04-18 07:13:45 by Jcl Jcl
Does Some one remember Matt/Ozone he got free entrance all the time back in the days ;)

Yo, diskmag-pro, at least try to spell his handle right, will ya?

I hope gargaj didnt have an issue that I shaked his hand for this incredible new Conspiracy 64kb intro. (Will u fix my account now? ;)

Wouldn't surprise me if he had. Even if not, plz stop mentioning on any given occasion, that you "shaked his hand". Also stop nagging about your account. It's apparently your mind that needs to be fixed.
added on the 2015-04-18 08:16:07 by Sir Sir