pouët.net

"Go to Pouet, but not to the BBS"

category: offtopic [glöplog]
Or similar to that, Pouet is being introduced to people who are fresh to the scene, and ready to delve in. For a reason I always found that too harsh, as we can all take a joke, or a pony pic, or a bit of Maali - if you don't care, you just don't.
After seeing the ASM 2012 compostudio today (yeah, I'm slowpoke) I felt a bit pissed actually, as Pouet was only mentioned for it's prod listing, and one should really avoid the BBS or the oneliner. From people who are either on it themselves, or just ignore it - which is okay, as everyone may and should have their own opinion. Thing is, you're the community yourself, so writing "FAIL" after a hint where to obtain information isn't that much helping with the conversation.

Somehow there seems to be a problem for some, that might have a solution already. Some of you might know Reddit, and love or hate it as much as the BBS here. Two bigger features are to have twodimensional commenting, and up- or downvoting comments,- something that Pouet may lack. It'd give one the opportunity to have discussions on the prods themselves, or just have residue and ontopic discussions in the same thread - not interfering with each other.
There is already a demoscene subreddit, but rather small and far away,- and I'd love to have the discussion stay here instead of third partying it.

As everything, it has it's dis- and advantages, just curious what you think about it.

tl;dr You are the community, make it what you want it to be! We're lacking a dimension? Reddit'ish BBS?
added on the 2012-08-17 01:12:39 by mog mog
2006 called.

ofcourse if gargaj would open source pouet already this could easily be fixed.

but i guess we will forever be waiting on pouet 2.0

or demozoo 2.0 for that matter
added on the 2012-08-17 01:24:09 by psenough psenough
I like mogs idea. That is all.


Sincerely, Captain BREADRAVE
added on the 2012-08-17 01:37:15 by m0d m0d
psenough: FWIW It's one fucking coder (maybe more?) for a community this size, so I get his concerns about making slight modifications. The Digg people enforced their idea onto their community, and just drove a lot of them away. So..
added on the 2012-08-17 02:01:20 by mog mog
mog: one brave coder who was entrusted to keep the site going or pass it along to the next scener who could do better with their free time. not for keeping it locked down on his whim.
added on the 2012-08-17 03:19:17 by psenough psenough
let up on gargaj please. If you want to see things be different, offer to help, as others including gasman, if I recall correctly, have. Don't just dump anger on him for taking on a big job -- and he has taken on many big jobs in the scene.

re "tl;dr You are the community, make it what you want it to be!"

yep. Make good threads, not residue. Don't be a troll. Pretty easy, really.

As for reddit, I have nonrelevant snarky things I could say about it. But codebase does not a community make. Community a community makes. And there is one here, it's just splashed out across IRC and Fakebook and the rest. Defragmenting is a social problem, not a technical one.
metoikos: letting up on gargaj is what is causing this issue to drag on for years now.

this very same request for a slashdot/reddit kind of moderation was already made in 2005-2006, we had a much bigger problem with trolls and attentionwhores, the bbs was even hidden from the main page for a few weeks at some point. at that there were many more problems to deal with pouet.net archive and a revamp was already being started. gargaj's hatred for tables had him start a div remake of pouet as i recall, he was already half done with it before becoming the admin. plans for pouet 2.0 been cooking and re-cooking ever since. this was 6 years ago! before i had given webadmin access to gargaj and a couple other folks who never did anything and ended up getting their access revoked, among them gasman who was also working on demozoo at the time and we were trying to get more interoperability going. a couple years later i was swamped with new job and decided to drop out of pouet.net and scene.org.

and yes, gargaj did very well and is still doing a good job. and yes, i'm quite looking forward to the new demozoo.

but for over 9 months i been poking at him to open source pouet and allow others to submit their own updates for him to approve/refuse instead of implement. folks who been asking to be allowed to help for _years_. talking with analogue, analogue says the mention of making it open source is even older then my idea. even farbrausch took less time to open source all their source! it's not rocket science to open source a web project. yes, it needs some sanitation. no you don't need 9 months to do it. and there are others, trustworthy folks, who do webadmin for a living willing to help out supervising the process. so whats the bloody hold up? "busy doing a demo for revision" was acceptable for 2 months, not 9.

sure we could just "wait some more", "couz he's a busy person". SO DELEGATE, OPEN SOURCE IT ALREADY.

i'm not angry at him for taking on a big job, i'm frustrated that a site i invested much time on maintenance as both a user and admin, for years on end, is now slowly rotting away before my eyes with so many people willing to upgrade it and the guy i trusted to keep it going being "too busy" for months on end.
added on the 2012-08-17 05:28:55 by psenough psenough
Jesus Christ PS, who shat in your drink?
added on the 2012-08-17 08:05:08 by leijaa leijaa
I still don't approved the use of the acronym "BBS" when referring to a web-based discussion board.
Quote:
ITS A REFERENCE GOD DAMN IT

- Captain Obvious
Close pouet.net. Burn the scene.org servers down to the ground.
added on the 2012-08-17 10:09:56 by okkie okkie
i'm with ps on that matter. especially when i saw lately what three sceners can pull off in three days.
yeah, i know pouet code being a mess and stuff.. but that was already said 10 years ago.
added on the 2012-08-17 10:21:18 by v3nom v3nom
Quote:
tl;dr You are the community


ACK. I AM THE COMMUNITY. YES.
added on the 2012-08-17 10:26:41 by yzi yzi
It is a real shame how much resources and knowledge the BBS system lets go to waste instead of a properly structured, searchable forum.
And yes, I know and don't care much about Bitfellas, kthxbye.
[2cent]
Hats off to the demozoo people for their ambitious project, but after talking to people on IRC I don't see it replacing and improving pouet as of now, which is sad. Atm it looks like YetAnotherSite(tm) bundeling information to me... My opinion is people should join forces to remake pouet and not fragment the demoscene landscape.
[/2cent]
I'd be, like a lot of other people here, willing to help with my ideas and (honestly limited) time and HTML/PHP/JS skills.

Anyway.
added on the 2012-08-17 10:41:15 by raer raer
bring back the random image thread !!!
added on the 2012-08-17 11:04:04 by alien^PDX alien^PDX
Quote:
so many people willing to upgrade it

Quote:
a couple other folks who never did anything and ended up getting their access revoked


This is why I don't think open-sourcing Pouet is the magic bullet you think it is.

As one of those people who have been through the cycle of wanting to improve Pouet, getting access to the code and then quietly backing away once reality strikes: the codebase isn't *unusably* bad, it's just bad enough that the chances of someone wanting to hack on it for pleasure are minimal... minimal enough that it doesn't justify the small effort of opening up the code. (Especially if the medium/long term intention is to scrap that code and rewrite it from scratch.)
added on the 2012-08-17 11:32:10 by gasman gasman
what about open-sourcing pouet 2.0 then?
added on the 2012-08-17 11:37:10 by v3nom v3nom
So, here's the thing.. Over the years, quite a few people have tried other various projects to get a demoscene site with a "serious" forum, a site to send newbies, etc.

They've all failed one way or the other, because people keep coming back here..

I'm starting to think the reason for that is that on this site, things actually happen. Sure, every thread and post isn't meaningful (far from it), but at least *something* keeps happening even though the next post is just bullshit.

I normally check out each new "serious" site as they come along. After a few days of startup action, they slowly die down. Not enough new forum posts to keep my interest, so after a few days I stop checking the site and fall back here, where there are enough random images and residue threads to satisfy my attention span. And that way, I get both the residue and the few attempts at serious discussions. Which works for me..

But for newbies? They probably get scared shitless. Not because people don't get a joke, but because full frontal attacks like the one ps just pulled is scary as hell if you're new to a community.
added on the 2012-08-17 11:39:50 by leijaa leijaa
Quote:
what about open-sourcing pouet 2.0 then?

that i'll be fine with. as it is, it's what gasman says - a waste of the scrummasters time.

that is my final word.
added on the 2012-08-17 11:46:38 by Gargaj Gargaj
What gasman said.
Once had access, looked at the code, fiddled a bit aaaaand gave up. Life went on.


added on the 2012-08-17 12:04:08 by p01 p01
Problem solved then, opensource pouet v2.0 and every whiner can start working on that whenever they have time. Success!
added on the 2012-08-17 12:06:09 by leijaa leijaa
Why not let everything be just as it is? The time for Pouet 2.0 will come, once the servers melt down or World War III strikes. Then you can start from scratch and everyone will be on board again.

And on some other note: Maybe it's not the worst idea to be kinda "mean" and "scare new people away" at first. The demoscene is something where you have to be commited to, unlike sites like 9gag where lamers post lame things and other lamers giggle at it. Those, who are really interested and want to participate will get over the initial weirdness of the pouet BBS and maybe try a Demoparty out or produce something. Imho.

And after all, the pouet BBS is the demoscene. Why fake a weird sect like group where everyone loves each other, when it's not the case? ~_~
added on the 2012-08-17 12:10:27 by elend elend
Quote:
But for newbies? They probably get scared shitless. Not because people don't get a joke, but because full frontal attacks like the one ps just pulled is scary as hell if you're new to a community.

if you really want to get into the scene, then this will not drive you away. thousends of sceners who got into the scene back in the days prove that. i am from the opposite camp for that matter - imho all the asspetting and we-are-one-happy-family BS is what slowly kills the scene, not that its so terribly hard to get into it (which is BS by itself - its a LOT easier now than back in the days)
added on the 2012-08-17 12:10:36 by groepaz groepaz
Quote:

But for newbies? They probably get scared shitless. Not because people don't get a joke, but because full frontal attacks like the one ps just pulled is scary as hell if you're new to a community.

Actually, I don't think it's THAT scary. At least, it was not the case for me. (Plus, people are quite nice in the comments for prods by newcomers).

IMHO, telling newcomers to avoid pouet (because of trolls & offtopic & the harshness) is NOT a good thing, it is similar to telling them to avoid Revision (because of drunk people & too loud sound & "you may not rank well in the compo you know").

Pouet.net is the place to be online like you said, and the mess & the harshness are part of the charm (imho).

Of course, you will also advise newcomers to visit "friendly" smallers parties (and maybe to start with these ones). I think a good online equivalent are local demoscene portals.


And of course, a more modern pouet wouldn't hurt either ;).





added on the 2012-08-17 12:12:37 by wullon wullon

login