pouët.net

"Go to Pouet, but not to the BBS"

category: offtopic [glöplog]
Quote:
What I definitely don't want is for Demozoo to be a Pouet *competitor*, because fragmenting the community would suck.

Exactly, as I spoke with other people - nobody wants yet another platform to add their prods to - or have other add them.
Which does not mean Demozoo has no place, quite the opposite as I told you earlier I didn't know CONS released so much, only a thing I learned from Demozoo.


For the guys with OCDs, how to demoshock Japan without being able to UTF8? But keep on derailing, it's utter fun as well :)
added on the 2012-08-18 04:19:53 by mog mog
Quote:
But they don't know that yet. Don't you see the huge logical flaw in your argument? If people come to learn about the scene, that is something completely different from already having chosen to engage its the community. This argument, and just going around insisting that "Pouet is not the scene" is just not thinking about the actual problem -- where to send people.

this is based on the assumption though that there IS a problem at all. if someone wants to see what scene is like, send them to a party. or show them your stuff.

that said, i am all for creating a competing platform. competition is good, and results in a better product eventually. its also funny how you could do s/pouet/csdb in this thread =P
added on the 2012-08-18 11:37:06 by groepaz groepaz
centralized prod-database without any website on top (except for maintenance) accesed from various scene-approved[tm] sites which in turn can display/filter those any way they want and add community features like this bbs on top.
added on the 2012-08-18 13:26:31 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
"if someone wants to see what scene is like, send them to a party. or show them your stuff."

Yes, and there's no shortage of people doing that. There are even freaking TV broadcasts dedicated to doing that, which is kind of what prompted this thread in the first place.

The question is: when your audience says "This is really cool. Where can I find out more?", what's your answer?
added on the 2012-08-18 13:35:54 by gasman gasman
The answer would be: "Hmm, there is... wikipedia. And a couple of party websites with a bit of information." ;-)
added on the 2012-08-18 13:44:25 by D.Fox D.Fox
and the awards.scene.org site offers a fine selection of demos going back to 2002 that can act as a showcase
added on the 2012-08-18 14:08:41 by maali maali
Pouet as pouet for a free speech forum for "mature" and active sceners works fairly well right now imho.

THAT SAID, If i'm doing "outreach" at places where the majority of the people are kids or among non homogenous groups of people then i'm hesitant of mentioning pouet directly because i'd be the equivalent of introducing people to anime through 4chan.

The solution?

1: Demozoo looks like a great effort (why no beta?) but having multiple databases of prods is just a silly thing. So why not just make an API for pouet that demozoo (or similiar) can use to access the prod database and make beginner friendly interfaces (preferably with some curation to present the best in various categories of prods)?

2: Make a public dump of the DB (sans the passwords/emails) and let those that are interested come up with novel designs for a "new" community (design by committe is usually a dead end but a larger group adopting something that gets traction often works). By letting someone get all the prods,etc from the DB we'd also have an "upgrade" path to go by and thus one such design could "easily" be adopted as pouet 2.0 .
added on the 2012-08-18 14:12:55 by whizzter whizzter
an option would be to hide the BBS on the main page for the non-logged-in and replace the open space there with a very short demoscene description and a bunch of further reading links, such as wikipedia and hell even the old effects list by trixter i believe it was can suffice.
added on the 2012-08-18 14:13:48 by maali maali
well, let's say we work on pouet and then shine up scene.org (point taken Dfox), maybe connect the one to the other more obviously. But not replace pouet or get rid of it, because it does seem rather venerable at this point. And maybe self-moderate more on the BBS, or push relevant content to the top somehow.
Not to bowdlerize the scene, but to smooth transition into it for new folks (and the argument about whether there are new folks is not worth having). There are two options: 1) The scene fossilizes and dies off 2) The scene adapts (without losing its identity) and survives.

Instead of having this conversation over and over n various forms until we all die of old age or boredom, why don't a group of folks who happen to be doing a lot of outreach make a plan. The trick is to make a plan that will irritate a minimum of sceners and also likely start say, early October. : D
And put not too much weight of the projects onto any one person.

Ziphoid wants to do this D. Fox wants to do this. Who else wants to do this?
also re hiding the BBS, if there were a way to emphasize relevant threads and push them to the top, I think that would be valuable. Maybe "starred" threads. Because there *have* been some really good threads on here.

Yes, free expression good. But also, filtering so you can find stuff very good.
And perhaps a bit of self-moderation in relevant threads, and better tagging of posts.

re "then i'm hesitant of mentioning pouet directly because i'd be the equivalent of introducing people to anime through 4chan." THIS

Because it comes up for me again and again. : P
Quote:
also re hiding the BBS, if there were a way to emphasize relevant threads and push them to the top, I think that would be valuable

The residue category is doing just that. It keeps the crap off the main page, but it's still only 1 click away, so no OMG CENSORSHIP.
added on the 2012-08-18 14:30:25 by tomaes tomaes
"then i'm hesitant of mentioning pouet directly because i'd be the equivalent of introducing people to anime through 4chan."

so, rewriting 4chan is the obvious solution in favour of anime outreach!
added on the 2012-08-18 14:43:28 by maali maali
Quote:
so, rewriting 4chan is the obvious solution in favour of anime outreach!


This. I'm all for outreach and stuff (having held a lot of seminars and helping out people who've reached out to me through them) and I dislike Pouet just as much as anyone, but it'd be a lot more constructive if you people complaining about it actually did somethign about instead of just complaining. Build it and they will come.
added on the 2012-08-18 16:00:03 by Preacher Preacher
We're not really complaining per se, we'd actually improve on what is already here. Once more, Pouet is awesome as it is - sure - some things could however be improved for the better. Like the encoding, BBS, tagging, or whatever somebody else has on their minds.

Though I like the Hydra concept, we're not so big that it'd make sense to split ourselves even further. The gist, as far I understand most of you, is to indeed improve Pouet - not start something completely different. Nobody wants to change the look and feel of is either, so I think we do have the same mindset - to make small changes for the better.

Stop making up strawmans that want to change Pouet to something it isn't, we love Pouet as it is - though small improvements seem to be overdue.
added on the 2012-08-18 19:01:32 by mog mog
which is pouet2.0 and gargaj is working on it and it will be finished one day!
as for the outreach shit, go make a website about it! ;)
added on the 2012-08-18 19:34:12 by maali maali
well, if Pouet wants to be used more for representative goals, it pretty much needs to be moderated more and any illegal contents/pornographic contents have to be banned. I dont think we want that.

I personally would be already happy with flexible tagging, video embedding for productions and the login formular not deleting the username when focussing the password edit field. ;)
added on the 2012-08-18 19:51:43 by Salinga Salinga
I take your first sentence with sarcasm, that's the reason some of us want to help. If not code wise, then testing, or whatever gargaj feels that has to be done.
There are caveats we're maybe not aware of yet, so (without having seen the code) there might be the need to port things from this Pouet version to the 2.0 - or the need to change the DB structure. Who knows? That's why we rely on gargaj actually making a move, and accept the help we're offering - it will indeed remain his baby :)
added on the 2012-08-18 19:52:14 by mog mog
Quote:
"There's a reason this site has not changed much for the past decade: It didn't need to. It was and is good enough for what it is. A couple of hundred regular users with a niche hobby/sub-culture don't really need 10 levels deep nested comment threads and gradients and widgets and API integration with social networks X and Y. In a way I like how pragmatic and to-the-bones this site still looks and feels."


+1
Quote:
There's a reason this site has not changed much for the past decade: It didn't need to.


i beg to differ. and i assume that so do the many folks who continuously asked for updates through out the years and still do.
added on the 2012-08-18 20:09:47 by psenough psenough
10 years is a lot in IT years. the way folks make websites must has drastically changed atleast twice since analogue wrote the original index.php. it's only normal that the site should be revamped accordingly.

i just rather have it happen now, while we're still young and all, rather than "soon".
added on the 2012-08-18 20:14:21 by psenough psenough
What I really don't get about this whole thing is, that we used to be the people that drive innovation[0] - though still have to fight with encoding issues, something that everyone else seems to be able to do quite well. This is also just a fraction of the things that could be improved, once again - we're NOT proposing to add gradients, totally and drastically change the design or whatever else you have in mind when we speak about changes.

Quote:
A couple of hundred regular users with a niche hobby/sub-culture don't really need 10 levels deep nested comment threads and gradients and widgets and API integration with social networks X and Y.
If you can't even be arsed to read through four pages of comments to see that NOBODY proposed such thing, then the BBS might really need a change after all.

[0] Or well, maybe not anymore.
added on the 2012-08-18 20:28:53 by mog mog
@mog: There's this german phrase called "Der Schuster hat immer die schlechtesten Leisten / Schuhe an." xD I don't know the english equivalent, if there is one.
added on the 2012-08-18 20:35:09 by elend elend
The tailor's wife is worst clad.

Well, agreed - or at least that seems to be the situation we have here, so why not change that? :)
added on the 2012-08-18 20:42:17 by mog mog
Well, we programmers know the one rule: "Never change a running system." ;)
added on the 2012-08-18 21:10:38 by Salinga Salinga
I think it's cute how my strongly worded devil's advocate post was double and triple quoted without context and then people started to feel offended. ;)

Anyway, the kernel of truth(tm) still stands ("small community served relatively well for a long time by crummy but functional website"), all more or less reasonable demands for updates or more principal changes notwithstanding.

Quote:
What I really don't get about this whole thing is, that we used to be the people that drive innovation

If that was ever truly the case (besides size coding stunts and effect coding "records" 20 years ago), it was in a very narrow field and that field was not web portal development. ;)

(face it guys: this topic is so long in the tooth, it's "do it yourself" or "wait and shut up". 10 more pages of this will achieve the same thing as the previous 4: absolutely nothing.)
added on the 2012-08-18 21:27:47 by tomaes tomaes

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