pouët.net

The scene's opinion of GNU/Linux

category: code [glöplog]
Let's organize a Demoscene-Related Outreach for Linux-group: DROL.
added on the 2014-05-20 17:27:11 by Scali Scali
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You're just some other random guy on the internet who I don't know nothing about


The scene is all about knowing who's who.
And pouet makes that very easy!
added on the 2014-05-20 17:29:20 by Scali Scali
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neet: No, that's the *subject* SilverSlimer chose. His *post* on the other hand is about demo coding.


Must admit you're right with this, but this doesn't change anything for you as you already made up your mind^^


I've made up my mind about what, exactly?

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And yes, you're right, I don't care much for being nice to trolls.


Sure, already got that, but I don't really care. You're just some other random guy on the internet who I don't know nothing about ... and I don't want to change that (same over there I think).

So, hf :-) ... I've said what I wanted to say^^


Don't get me wrong, I don't intend to be unfriendly. But from my perspective it seemed like you called me and other stupid for not writing portable demo-code, and then try to argue your way out of it when someone called you out on it.

It seems to be clear now that there were some contextual confusion. I'm sorry for snapping at you, not assuming good faith.
added on the 2014-05-20 17:53:40 by kusma kusma
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Don't get me wrong, I don't intend to be unfriendly. But from my perspective it seemed like you called me and other stupid for not writing portable demo-code, and then try to argue your way out of it when someone called you out on it.

It seems to be clear now that there were some contextual confusion. I'm sorry for snapping at you, not assuming good faith.


Yeah, sorry for that. I didn't meant to offend anyone either.

I think it's just because (as a long time Windows user) I'm pretty pissed about Windows8 and so am moving away from Microsoft as far as I can^^ ... so I can't imagine writing code for Windows-only anymore.

So, seems to be just a misunderstanding ... sorry for assuming you were the average 'know-it-all' guy^^ ... would invite you on a beer if you weren't in Norway^^
added on the 2014-05-20 18:06:34 by neet neet
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do you have an email?


try my handle ät gmail


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Sucks. What I prefer is the following scenario: I have a vanilla OS installation (+ standard drivers), I pick a random intro for that system and it WORKS.
Sure, I know that this is not the case for a lot 4k/8k/64k intros out there, since somebody decided to allow some certain Windows libs in 2005. Hopefully these libs will be disallowed sooner or later.

I would totally hate to introduce something like "you have to install these packages for sizecoded intros". Installing a vanilla OS with default packages is OK (and well, than you get the linkage hell thing I mentioned before), installing additional libraries is a total NO GO, since that's something you should get rid of, instead of introducing it...


The purpose of a tool like CDE is to produce something that will run anywhere with no hassle. So an intro would be the executable itself, surrounded by 100Mb of stuff, i.e. "the platform". The executable runs natively on the correct system, but for convenience it's packaged in such a way that it will run on any distro. Would such a submission be accepted in a size limited compo? I think it should. It's better than the status quo IMO. We just need to have a list of things allowed to be present in "the platform", stuff that doesn't defeat the purpose of sizecoding but is still reasonable as a base for development.
added on the 2014-05-20 22:56:09 by algorias algorias
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by algorias:
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by las:
Sucks. What I prefer is the following scenario: I have a vanilla OS installation (+ standard drivers), I pick a random intro for that system and it WORKS.
Sure, I know that this is not the case for a lot 4k/8k/64k intros out there, since somebody decided to allow some certain Windows libs in 2005. Hopefully these libs will be disallowed sooner or later.

I would totally hate to introduce something like "you have to install these packages for sizecoded intros". Installing a vanilla OS with default packages is OK (and well, than you get the linkage hell thing I mentioned before), installing additional libraries is a total NO GO, since that's something you should get rid of, instead of introducing it...


The purpose of a tool like CDE is to produce something that will run anywhere with no hassle. So an intro would be the executable itself, surrounded by 100Mb of stuff, i.e. "the platform". The executable runs natively on the correct system, but for convenience it's packaged in such a way that it will run on any distro. Would such a submission be accepted in a size limited compo? I think it should. It's better than the status quo IMO. We just need to have a list of things allowed to be present in "the platform", stuff that doesn't defeat the purpose of sizecoding but is still reasonable as a base for development.
Well given from what people have said here, as I wouldn't directly know, Windows 8 (or was it 8.1?) comes with DLLs like those required for shader compiling and such, so some of the requirements for some size-coded demos might drop if that's all they really needed the other stuff for.
From my point of view:
If you want to make your pc compo organizers happy: Target Windows PC. If you want to do a linux port - knock yourself out!

The guys with the proper hardware to watch your releases will thank you for doing so (most of them will probably run a Windows). Watching crappy video artifacts on youtube is not the real thing and booting to some other OS is not either.

I highly encourage you to go all in for cross platform compatibility if you really want to go that painful road.
added on the 2014-05-20 23:07:35 by las las
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Why release an application on Windows alone

this might have something to do with that:
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Windows 7 49.27%
Windows XP 26.29%
Windows 8 12.24%
OS X 7.63%
Other 3.66%
Windows Vista 2.89%
Linux 1.58%

Desktop OS Market Share as of April 2014 according to Net Applications[1]
added on the 2014-05-21 00:07:34 by Maali Maali
then again, i'd love to double the working hours and development costs of my "real applications" just so a handful of linuxbeards can use my "real application" too just like every sane person who uses Windows ;)
added on the 2014-05-21 00:08:48 by Maali Maali
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added on the 2014-05-21 00:53:23 by ringofyre ringofyre
there should be more demos using ncurses.
added on the 2014-05-21 01:10:20 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
Market share of unknown group of web sites is not relevant. Statistics of pouet.net would be much more interesting... (If an admin is reading...)

My obscure websites have something like 40% windows, 20% osx, 15% linux, all other are mainly ios and android.
added on the 2014-05-21 11:45:08 by gilles gilles
but i missed the memo that we make demos for pouet users?
added on the 2014-05-21 12:00:59 by Maali Maali
yeah, since when is youtube not the #1 target audience
added on the 2014-05-21 12:24:28 by msqrt msqrt
OS breakdown for Demozoo visitors (since January 1st):

Windows - 64.3%
iOS - 9.0%
Android - 9.0%
Mac - 8.7%
Linux - 5.0%
added on the 2014-05-21 12:45:13 by gasman gasman
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but i missed the memo that we make demos for pouet users?


Or website users in general...
For example, C64 and Amiga are among the most popular demo platforms, but they aren't even capable of browsing the web, so they would never show up in any OS stats.
added on the 2014-05-21 12:54:47 by Scali Scali
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Youtube 99.27%


fixed that for you.
added on the 2014-05-21 12:56:49 by xTr1m xTr1m
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but i missed the memo that we make demos for pouet users?


Or website users in general...
For example, C64 and Amiga are among the most popular demo platforms, but they aren't even capable of browsing the web, so they would never show up in any OS stats.


Relevancy? As if Linux would run on C64 or Amiga.
added on the 2014-05-21 12:57:53 by xTr1m xTr1m
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Youtube or JavaScript 99.27%


Fixed even more.
So the conclusion is... either make a video capture, or write your demos in JavaScript if you insist that everyone should be able to run the demo 'on real hardware'.
After all, if you go by OS stats based on website design, you imply that visiting websites is a requirement. Which means that everyone has a web browser... so, make demos for web browsers, not for OSes.
added on the 2014-05-21 13:01:37 by Scali Scali
in my (admittedly limited) understanding most groups use an ordinary PC and a suitable emulator for developing most oldschool productions nowadays, so the actual usage of the original OS is either occasional debugging or watching the production, mostly for capturing it to video - for youtube!
added on the 2014-05-21 13:02:39 by msqrt msqrt
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Relevancy? As if Linux would run on C64 or Amiga.


http://www.linux-m68k.org/
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Current releases of the m68k kernel are stable on the Amiga, Atari, many Apple Macintosh models, and several VMEbus single-board computers from BVM, Motorola and Tadpole.
added on the 2014-05-21 13:03:02 by Scali Scali
Sadly that will not work on the C64's 6510, but who cares since we don't need any OS to display things on the C64 ;)
added on the 2014-05-21 13:17:45 by rez rez
For the C64 there is always LUnix: http://lng.sourceforge.net/
added on the 2014-05-21 13:19:42 by Scali Scali
also ppl who proudly refer to android as 'linux' and use that as argument that linux is a worthwhile OS are just fucking retarded :)
added on the 2014-05-21 13:34:43 by Maali Maali
@scali: AWESOME! :D

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added on the 2014-05-21 13:48:08 by rez rez

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