numen by taQuart
screenshot added by raver on 2003-03-18 19:31:33
platform :
type :
release date : july 2002
release party : Lato Ludzików 2002
compo : atari 8bit demo
ranked : 1st
related :
  • rulez 96
  • is ok 5
  • sucks 0
popularity : 2%
  • rulez 0.95
  • cdcs 3
alltime top: #436
added on the 2003-03-18 19:31:32 by raver raver

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the best ATARi8 demo ever !
rulezadded on the 2003-03-18 21:45:24 by podo podo
It require a killing XL configuration (will not work on basic 64k XL systems), but is definitevely a most see.

6502 rulez, specialy at 1.79 mhz :)
rulezadded on the 2003-03-18 21:52:03 by Dbug Dbug
damn hot.
rulezadded on the 2003-03-18 22:28:35 by tomaes tomaes
I don't know all that much about the hardware limits of the XL platform, but for an 8-bit demo it sure looks impressive!
rulezadded on the 2003-03-18 22:29:01 by Sdw Sdw
See it live at Forever.. in atari demoshow.. which was after compos.. it was the only demo they shown.. ;-) And that was really enough ;-)))))))))) Fabulous!
rulezadded on the 2003-03-18 23:07:39 by CreaMD CreaMD


added on the 2003-03-19 09:28:48 by raver raver

oops, i meant thumb

rulezadded on the 2003-03-19 09:29:25 by raver raver
Really, really, really, really impressive and huge demo!!!
rulezadded on the 2003-03-19 13:48:23 by Optimus Optimus
Numen was part of a really interesting atari event year. The scene seems to be reborn when numen was shown at Lato Ludzików. Numen consequential uses modern techniques and almost every known xl/xe potential. Probably this nice piece of software is the only proof for the real power of atari xl/xe, wich was always known to be a computer which was not as good as the c64. I know this computer now for about 20 years. And almost every 8bit fan would say, that there were only a few titles on this platform which were really superb (mostly when xl/xe was the primary target to be developed).

Today, people know much more about the hardware and the real stength, which is provided by atari even in the year 1978 (as the xl/xe models were up to 90% the same hardware as the old 400/800 hardware). As a non-coder I hope, that this title will just be the start of upcoming demos in near future. Then the XL/XE platform will be on a position where it should be all the time before: somewhere between C64 and Amiga.
rulezadded on the 2003-03-20 11:10:03 by twh twh
awesome. bsp doom worlds on 6502.. eat that!! the other fx are marvellous as well. timing seems slick, gfx and music match.

yeah, this is truly a masterpiece of code. they pushed the limits.
rulezadded on the 2003-03-20 14:56:31 by earx earx
taquart breaks your balls :D
rulezadded on the 2003-03-21 11:16:25 by lai lai
NUMEN is simply the best Demo on ATARI XL/XE . I mostly like the lightning-effects. 256 colors are making it possible
rulezadded on the 2003-03-24 23:02:11 by emkay emkay
avi anywhere?
added on the 2003-04-03 20:41:48 by Pete Pete
what can i say... this is a masterpiece, numen rocks, taquart are the gods of atari 8bit, period.

pete, not any avi's afaik, but it runs quite well on the Atari800WinPLus emulator

rulezcdcadded on the 2003-04-04 17:34:03 by havoc havoc
Thanks Havoc. This is some crazy code! I personally think the bsp worlds are ugly though.
rulezadded on the 2003-04-10 00:40:55 by Pete Pete
it's really outstanding from most of the xl/xe demos i've seen before (right, i said that last year aswell - my opinion didn't change =)
rulezadded on the 2003-06-02 16:53:23 by dalezr dalezr
thanks for all comments! the guys did a very good job! an AVI is a good idea! i'll check

more infos:


rulezadded on the 2003-06-08 10:50:59 by heaven_tqa heaven_tqa
japp. no more comments on it?! This is the most shocking demo ever made in xl/xe ... so if you don't know it: WHY ARE YOU WAITING!
added on the 2003-07-27 10:56:25 by twh twh
For those that enjoyed the demo, please see:
added on the 2003-08-18 22:16:32 by eru eru
kickass! best prod ever.
rulezadded on the 2004-07-26 17:18:45 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
When I saw my first demo ever in late 1988 (Revenge of Magnus) I was amazed by the efx included in. After a couple of years I was blown away by WFMH's The Top series. Later I was surised by some Shadows, Slight, Tqa prods, but when In 2oo3 I saw Numen.... Do not know what to say. For sure I will NOT say "it is the best demo ever" cause a human (and machine) potential probably will bring in the future to the light a new demo (I hope so), which will once again made us dizzy. I wonder if this demo was written (enteriely?) on PC so is that why it was possible to achieve such astonishing results? But what really counts are the final effects of the demo and those are the most impressive I have ever seen on small Atari (well, mirror scroll in RoM still rules!=). Brievly, my hat off my head dudes.
rulezcdcadded on the 2004-08-07 13:35:44 by sim sim
you guys must be crazy!
absolutely amazing, though would have been nicer if you hadn't used the wolfenstein-part that often and that long... it rocks technically-wise, but gets boring (the wolfenstein-part)
apart from that, it's just pure magic (better say antic magic ;)
rulezadded on the 2004-08-26 13:27:38 by Hopper/SquoQuo Hopper/SquoQuo
rulezadded on the 2004-09-07 06:19:56 by p01 p01
Totally and utterly rules.
rulezadded on the 2004-09-27 13:50:11 by xeron xeron
rulezadded on the 2004-09-27 14:53:48 by Buckethead Buckethead
great music, cool effects, ugly gfx and that wolfenstein part is boring. but all in all, roxxorz!
rulezadded on the 2005-01-01 22:20:50 by hollowman hollowman
Truly one of the best demos for Atari !
rulezadded on the 2005-01-23 02:57:52 by ^Fr3du^ ^Fr3du^
Best demo in any 8bit machine ever!!!
added on the 2005-01-23 03:46:51 by Optimus Optimus
Atari !!!
rulezadded on the 2005-01-23 09:29:31 by Zweckform Zweckform
holy shite. a real doom engine on 6502!!! if i knew how to code i would turn it into a real game... some of the other fx are nice too, but the doom egine is def. the kicker here.
rulezadded on the 2005-02-18 17:05:35 by madcrow madcrow
Best 8-bit demo on all platforms!
rulezadded on the 2005-03-09 15:27:42 by ggn ggn
Yes it rules.
rulezadded on the 2005-03-13 01:27:32 by fiveofive fiveofive
rulezadded on the 2005-04-14 19:28:41 by _nemo_ _nemo_
Very very good, abused a bit of table-tunnels but anyways the bumpmaps were really well done and towards the end there were some high-res vectors which I'm sure were not exactly easy to do ;) And the jisawed tunel just ruled :))))
rulezadded on the 2005-04-14 20:40:37 by winden winden
I had a hard time convincing me that this was running on a 8bit machine.. before I looked at the source :)

rulezadded on the 2005-04-14 21:33:29 by Preacher Preacher
wow, really fantastic 8 bit demo
rulezadded on the 2005-05-29 19:11:28 by RA RA
rulezadded on the 2005-08-10 10:13:34 by bonzaj bonzaj
YES! But we want more, More, MORE! :)
rulezcdcadded on the 2005-08-27 18:40:27 by miker miker
Can only give one thumb up, for shame ;-)

It even runs sweetly on emulator, specifically the Atari 800 port to Falcon CT60, which is a major coding feat, considering how jittery that emulator can get with a lot of stuff.

Kudos to Taquart and the Polski Atari 8-bit scene in general!
rulezadded on the 2005-09-29 01:10:11 by CiH CiH
All thumbs I have for this 8Bit Masterpiece.
600XL, 800XL with build-in BASIC and an expansion port have been the rulors in 1982.
Still seeing demos for it is fantastic!
rulezadded on the 2005-10-07 21:35:30 by ALiEN^bf ALiEN^bf
Rulez! Nothing more to say!! :-)) Best prod ever on this small machine!!
rulezadded on the 2005-10-08 00:41:55 by Premium Premium
It's amazing what some people can do with less than 2 mhz when some others can't code decent looking stuff with 2 ghz ;)

and as usual, X-Ray's tune is awesome.
rulezadded on the 2005-10-14 17:33:37 by keops keops
Grows with each re-watch! <3
added on the 2005-12-01 10:29:14 by ALiEN^bf ALiEN^bf
rulezadded on the 2005-12-04 11:19:36 by wie8 wie8
Hellya... another one missed to thumb up! This one rocks so much! The best XL demo ever!
rulezadded on the 2006-02-11 01:43:06 by ltk_tscc ltk_tscc
/me seen lately on emu. roxxz! /|\
thus wolfenstein boring indeed.
rulezadded on the 2006-02-19 20:14:33 by bizun_ bizun_
Awesome! The rubics cube is excellent.
rulezadded on the 2006-03-12 23:56:37 by StingRay StingRay
rulezadded on the 2006-06-27 12:24:18 by ninja ninja
rulezadded on the 2006-10-17 19:16:55 by degauss degauss
link is broken :( anyone can send this to me pls?
mahtiaivo: link works fine here, try again, it might have been temporarily down :)
added on the 2006-10-24 21:50:19 by keops keops
A superb demo that manage to put to shame some demos running on better computers. The very best 8 bit demo IMHO.
rulezadded on the 2007-01-21 00:12:17 by micdune micdune
rulezadded on the 2007-01-28 07:10:26 by BITS BITS
i seen this and its fucking good! taquart rules ;)
rulezadded on the 2007-03-26 19:38:26 by uns3en_ uns3en_
Highly inspirational!! Very schizophrenic, especially the FPRPG scenes which gives it CDCability... and the soundtrack... and all that hardcore math things running... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!! !!!!!1111hundredandeleven

It even teaches you how to speedsolve a rubik's cube!!
rulezadded on the 2007-04-24 10:39:51 by Momo Vampire Momo Vampire

Today, people know much more about the hardware and the real stength, which is provided by atari even in the year 1978 (as the xl/xe models were up to 90% the same hardware as the old 400/800 hardware). As a non-coder I hope, that this title will just be the start of upcoming demos in near future. Then the XL/XE platform will be on a position where it should be all the time before: somewhere between C64 and Amiga.

Hmm.. don't forget that this demo requires a (for the age of the machine) massive RAM upgrade. I'd be intrested to know how much of this demo an unexpanded 64k atari 8 bit machine could do, and how much a C64 could do with a similar amount of RAM. (i'm presuming here that the atari ram expansions are not like the C64 REU ones, which are more like RAM disk than actual RAM).
added on the 2007-04-24 11:24:43 by xeron xeron
(i'm not putting down this demo or atari 8 bits, btw, which both rule).
added on the 2007-04-24 11:25:26 by xeron xeron
xeron: i'm not uptodate with specs of "C64 REU" expansions... but what i can tell you is that atari8 uses a fairly simple bankswitching method to address more than 64k RAM.

also, i guess it's useful to note that memory expansions have been commonplace in the atari8 scene for a very, very long time now. atari itself released a 128k XE (the 130XE), other vendors sold 256k and larger expansions in the early 80's already.

as for comparing c64 and atari8... well it should be obvious to anyone who can read that the atari8 has better specifications than c64 in almost all aspects. it's a lot like comparing amiga and atari st... but with reversed roles for the companies involved ;)
added on the 2007-04-24 11:51:49 by havoc havoc
havoc,you sound like when speccy users tell the c64 colors sucks, because they arent like their oversaturated rgb puke :)

better in almost all aspects right ? especially in the sound, sprite and the nr of colors/scanline in high resolutions department :D lol.
added on the 2007-05-19 15:58:37 by Oswald Oswald
oswald <3

i got bored of that discussion way back in 1989, but it's still entertaining some i guess ;)
added on the 2007-05-19 17:11:27 by havoc havoc
dear havoc, numen rulez, but spreading lies about the c64 sucks.
rulezadded on the 2007-05-19 17:28:48 by Oswald Oswald

Spreading lies about Atari XL/XE sucks too! I'm also getting tired of that discussion about RAM expansions on the 8bit atari, esp. when c64 folks come into this discussion. the 8bit atari was designed for highest flexibility on RAM expansion right from the beginning in the late 70s. this is no hack and/or some kind of illegal way of "pimp my machine". every single NUMEN effect could be realized with a plain 64KB machine. but the demo makers preferred to load first all the code into memory and let it running without interruptions and waiting times for disk I/O.

to use your words:
I'd be interested to know how much of this demo a C64 could do, and how much an 64KB 8bit Atari could do, when it only would have the ability to load from disk while the music is playing and let the floppy cpu calculate in parallel.

added on the 2007-05-23 23:14:44 by twh twh
twh: how about not putting words in other people's mouth.

The demo is nice, but it's really a shame I can't run it on my Atari 800XL. And the point with the 320kB RAM-expansion is that you're not running this demo on a "basic" machine, but an expanded one, no matter how many users have that particular expansion (a bit like the sidcard on the plus4).

I'd be much more impressed by the demo if it actually ran on my machine. Hell, I wouldn't mind if it required an 130XE =)
added on the 2007-05-24 09:03:29 by britelite britelite
i'm also against using non-standard hardware. nowadays, on aga amiga, atari8, msx and even sometimes on falcon it's the normal way to do things.

eru once said in an interview that this demo could have been done on 64KB but the design would be a problem. this is what twh talks about: the loading times. i guess i still prefer it the 320 KB way, even if, i will never see it on my own 800 XL indeed..
added on the 2007-05-24 09:40:58 by earx earx
Oh, and I forgot my thumb
rulezadded on the 2007-05-24 10:04:42 by britelite britelite
I don't really get the point of all the discussion about ram usage, but ok . here we go. i just compiled and bundled every single effect used in the numen demo including the vector game engine which you can run on every 8bit Atari XL/XE. download link here:


Like I said. Not a single effect needs an upgraded Atari by itself. I even think that it wouldn't be a big deal to create a 64KB version which however must interrupt music and loads the next part from disk. if one is interested he could do this his own using the freely available numen sources at http://numen.scene.pl/ .
added on the 2007-05-25 17:54:05 by twh twh

at desert dream most of our effects run about 20-30% slower because we trade that speed for loading. This is the point against using 320kb ram. you dont need to load and compensate for that like we do. You just throw part after part on the screens.

a c64 can do all of this (but slower) since its the same cpu (but slower) and you said all routines can run in 64kb.
added on the 2007-06-19 20:03:37 by Oswald Oswald
It has always annoyed me to death that I own three different A8 computers but cannot watch any demos after 1995. A demo should work on the standard hardware, and sorry: Standard is NOT what a few members of the demo scene have. On C64 any gamer can take his 1983 C64 from the basement and start watching demos, or anyone can buy any C64 from eBay and do it. But on A8 this is not possible. The scene cripples itself down to the core scene members by requiring wild hacked hardware addons. And no, desoldering of the original DRAMs, ordering some weirdo homebrew RAM expansion from poland and soldering it into your computer is not "highest flexibility on RAM expansion right from the beginning". On C64 you simply plug your original Commodore RAM expansion to the expansion port and have your +128, +256 or +512k.

twh wrote: "atari itself released a 128k XE (the 130XE)"

Yes sure, and Commodore released the C128. Do C64 demos require 128k now? No.

twh wrote: "Not a single effect needs an upgraded Atari by itself"

The music needs it, and the "demo flow". That's actually two very important things in a demo. Easily as important as the effects themselves.
I know that loading with music is quite troublesome for the coder and the guy who's doing the music since only 2 channels are useable during loading, but that is the restriction of the A8 and you have to live with it. At the moment it's more like "we don't actually like the original A8 hardware, so we modify it until we like it".

twh wrote: "I'd be interested to know how much of this demo a C64 could do"

Like Oswald said: Everything but slower. This demo is an A8 demo, don't expect it to work as good on C64. This is also the reason why nobody has ported it to C64 yet. It would only show the weaknesses of the C64 and none of it's strengths, and the people at AtariAge most certainly would use the port to bash the C64 :D . There's also a number of C64 demos which wouldn't port good to A8 :)

Anyway, apart from this discussion still thumb up for the demo itself.
rulezadded on the 2007-06-20 13:46:27 by Zonkham Zonkham
c64 zealots... pathetic! :(

if you had any sense of respect, you'd discuss this in a bbs thread, so people can properly ignore your whining...
added on the 2007-06-20 13:56:56 by havoc havoc

added on the 2007-06-20 22:50:25 by Zonkham Zonkham
havoc, you started the whining, because you cant stand the c64 superiority :)
added on the 2007-06-28 04:45:08 by Oswald Oswald
rulezadded on the 2007-08-25 18:18:34 by Shazz^TRSi^MJJ Shazz^TRSi^MJJ
This demo rocks.

And Oswald - c64 colors DO SUCK. And they DO look like puke. Every human draw on C64 looks like dead. For quite a long time.
Regardless of fact your head will explode while reading some true. Even if it harsh.
rulezadded on the 2007-12-10 13:50:05 by johny johny
rulezadded on the 2008-01-19 17:08:13 by substrate substrate
this demo is indeed incredibly good!
nice combination of "newschool" 3d flyby ;) and oldschool 1 frame effects..

Regarding the 320k discussion: I may not know much about the XL/XE but I got the impression that the memory expansion is kind of standard similar to the 512k fakefast expansion on the Amiga500 !?
rulezadded on the 2008-01-20 17:30:15 by xyz xyz
fantastic demo. big thumbzzzz...
rulezadded on the 2008-01-22 01:17:03 by Skate Skate
"And Oswald - c64 colors DO SUCK. And they DO look like puke. Every human draw on C64 looks like dead. For quite a long time."

you atari guys must have a strange love towards dead people as you have ripped a lot of c64 gfx of "dead humans" including the color scheme. using them as a show off for your machines capabilities.

check the graph2font gallery man, I can point out more than 2 dozens c64 rippoffs :)
added on the 2008-01-22 02:19:11 by Oswald Oswald
So what. New-Skool-Demos need the latest graphics card to run smoothly and old-skool demos needs RAM expansion. If ATARI 8-Bit needs a special 64k department, because it can do more, it speaks for the system.

rulezadded on the 2008-01-22 02:21:57 by Salinga Salinga
yeah, superior machines usually "needs" HW upgrades to be able to pull of a trackmo :)
added on the 2008-01-22 02:59:50 by Oswald Oswald
ruling stuff !
rulezadded on the 2008-01-22 05:25:50 by mEDiA sENtRY mEDiA sENtRY
OMG! it is incredible! It's best what i see on ATARI!
rulezadded on the 2008-01-22 23:00:05 by breeze breeze
Some very kickass fx for an 8bit computer, although the slow flatshaded 3d world scenes were kinda boring.
rulezadded on the 2008-01-24 12:22:18 by cruzer cruzer
incredible shit.!
rulezadded on the 2008-01-27 15:15:13 by hArDy. hArDy.
rulez, too bad the video isn't full.
rulezadded on the 2008-03-17 21:14:55 by dimouse dimouse
I am not sure if we had this already posted...

but you find the Numen FX running on 64k machines here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=108939&st=25

so as Eru/Fox always said...the extended mempory is used for loading.
well... ;) i my fault...i just tried some of the FX and they show not all gfx on 64k machines...on 128k machines some more fx run... so it seems not 100% true that the fx can be run on 64k machines... (without a rewrite). ;)
The C64 "ripoffs" in the G2F Gallery are done because of their "historical" meaning.
The modern pictures (FLI and else) are not worthy to "rip" , because they are more than "off" ;-) by the used colours and style.
added on the 2008-03-22 11:04:01 by emkay emkay
My cheap "Jack Tramiel 130XE" 64k RAM chips have finally died last week \o/ Perfect excuse to "repair" it with 320kB and finally watch this on real hardware!!

Absolute master piece (at least in teh emu)
rulezadded on the 2008-03-31 03:35:51 by button button
cool demo (didn´t like the 3d world scenes though)
rulezadded on the 2008-07-08 08:23:39 by Prot-DHS Prot-DHS
Oh my god! Fabulous work...
rulezadded on the 2008-07-29 14:37:05 by baah baah
rulezadded on the 2008-07-30 16:57:16 by zefyros zefyros
some effects good, some bad, some ugly ;-)
added on the 2008-10-17 19:34:30 by irwin irwin
Best 8 bit demo ever !!
rulezadded on the 2008-11-07 03:01:46 by zoolum zoolum
rulezadded on the 2009-02-17 22:11:44 by Alpha C Alpha C
Nice. But would be even better if standard Atari 8 bit.
rulezadded on the 2009-06-13 18:09:23 by lsl lsl
This demo impressed me very much when I've seen it for first time, I didn't expected that XL/XE is capable for this.
rulezadded on the 2009-07-19 14:31:40 by Shiru Shiru
what a show!
rulezadded on the 2009-07-21 04:15:40 by xernobyl xernobyl
i've seen this at riverwash, fucking great
rulezadded on the 2009-09-08 14:57:04 by Gargaj Gargaj
too slow in some parts but still... massive!
rulezadded on the 2010-01-10 02:01:46 by Grimmy Grimmy
Holy Cow!
rulezadded on the 2010-03-01 13:27:41 by d0DgE d0DgE
Great demo! It's awesome!
rulezadded on the 2010-03-01 13:54:53 by ham ham
added on the 2010-06-17 20:15:57 by sim sim
Absolutely impressive!
rulezadded on the 2010-09-23 15:17:18 by jack-3d jack-3d
SELECT * FROM `comment` WHERE `value` LIKE '%OMFG%'
rulezadded on the 2011-08-03 14:47:29 by rez rez
Great and impressive demo! Superprod! With interesting history.
rulezadded on the 2011-08-23 16:59:22 by zbyndek zbyndek
Cool demo saw this at the end of retrogathering 2011 with bnicke
rulezadded on the 2011-09-25 14:00:32 by Queen bittin Queen bittin
rulezadded on the 2011-09-25 14:10:13 by las las
rulezadded on the 2011-11-05 12:43:15 by Frequent Frequent
grat tune and nice 3D ;)
rulezadded on the 2012-09-12 14:41:09 by nekomono nekomono
rulezadded on the 2012-09-12 14:47:40 by krusty krusty
Cool !
rulezadded on the 2012-10-09 22:50:28 by thePink thePink
phenomenal demo
rulezadded on the 2012-10-10 21:06:03 by ooz ooz
!!! ♥
rulezadded on the 2013-01-03 01:35:06 by Adoru Adoru
awesome demo and totally awesome music
rulezadded on the 2013-01-11 12:57:00 by anni anni
simply excellent in every aspect
rulezadded on the 2013-01-11 13:34:49 by gwEm gwEm
two words: holy shit!
rulezadded on the 2013-01-11 15:59:28 by sensenstahl sensenstahl
I had forgotten just how good this is. I'd give it a second thumbs up if I could :) Love the music.
added on the 2013-01-13 22:38:54 by Preacher Preacher
Amazing 3D engine, which seems to have been used to its full extent here - the camera paths and the scenery are very cleverly done and it is by no means a simple fly-through. The sprites are especially cool. Nice music too.
rulezadded on the 2013-01-14 01:54:19 by fizzer fizzer
8-bits are enough
rulezadded on the 2013-02-02 11:04:35 by dr_apok dr_apok
That's some incredibly hardcore Atari 8-bit banging.
rulezadded on the 2013-03-30 14:25:42 by Scali Scali
Forgot to thumb this up, this prod got me into the Atari scene
rulezadded on the 2013-05-14 19:15:58 by Nitro/Black Sun Nitro/Black Sun
Totally unreal!
rulezadded on the 2013-11-16 20:19:04 by Daniel Daniel
pretty awesome achievement, rocking 8bit demo!
rulezadded on the 2013-11-30 22:22:51 by keito keito
Oh my god I love this prod so much.
rulezadded on the 2013-12-01 21:00:40 by Paulwe Paulwe
The best demo I've seen on this machine! Impressive Doom engine!
rulezadded on the 2014-03-15 12:30:38 by Alone_Coder Alone_Coder

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