pouët.net

I'm not talking game-dev here.
I kinda mean, application development, utility and commercial tools
( general software )

so my query is :
- how much pay ?
- what languages ?
- how many jobs available?
- would you recommend it?

thx :)

- decent
- pretty much anything. I guess Java, Python, PHP, SQL, Javascript, HTML5 and managed languages are popular nowadays.
- lots
- definitely not

- How good are you? Where do you live?
- How good are you? Where do you live?
- How good are you? Where do you live?
- How good are you? Where do you live?

- depends
- depends
- many
- definitely (but just as with any job: if you're not really interested in that business, don't try to get into that business just for whatever reason there might be)

STYX \o/

Your questions list severely lacks the:
- Is it fun?
- Is it interesting?
- Is it rewarding?
ones.

Regarding the questions you did ask, see above answers.

Money depends on what exactly you do.

Simple web scripting and PHP is on the low-end of the spectrum, with many applicants and not as much demand. High-end Realtime/Backend/Server stuff or work on embedded systems will be paid much better, but also require a bit more l33t h3ck0rz skillz. ;) Normal application development with Java or .Net should be somewhere in between.

Some special niches (Cobol, Fortran, Forth, legacy code, porting, maintenance, generally rare or obscure architectures and programming languages) could also be a viable alternative if you're into that sort of thing.

"Software development" can go from minor PHP websites to dashboard software for fighter planes. You have to be a bit more specific ;)

I would advise caution if you are a hobbyist software developer and want to make a career out of it. Doing it for a living might take most of the fun out of it, and doing it for money and for other people might be less motivating than you expect (unless you relish in technical challenge or something specific that the job entails).

What Gargaj & Preacher said.
And one more thing to keep in mind: "software development" is not necessarily the same as "programming". Be prepared for a metric crapton of processes, testing and other stuff (at least in some industries).

That's why I sell my body for $$$.

In Finland very rough estimate is somewhere between 3000 and 4500 euros if it's not a complete entry-level thing.


Large variety. Best guess is that you just go to monster.com or some other job seeking site and check what is the average of requirements in the job ads.


Plenty if you know your shit or are able to adjust.


I wouldn't know what I would do if it wasn't somehow IT related. I'd recommend.

- pay: What gloom said. You're not going to get rich from your salary, but you're not going to have to worry about being able to pay your bills (unless you're an idiot when it comes to money).
- languages: Depends on the domain (mobile, automotive, web, PC, ...). Keep in mind that many employers will look not just for people who know this or that language, but also those who are familiar with specific tools or frameworks (rails, yii, xcode, git, ...) relevant to the position they're looking to fill.

Also what Korvkiosken said. This will depend on your company, your competence areas, experience, etc. But as a software developer/engineer you can expect to spend quite a lot of time on planning/coordinating upcoming projects, reviewing/merging patches, and debugging, depending on what stages the company's ongoing projects are in.

Hmm... I'm not starting out to work just yet Just figuring out what I'll learn in university

By "software development" I kind of meant end-user programs ( word processors - movie editors - etc ) and for languages I'd most likely do C++ or delphi. Platform would almost definitely be PC.

or .NET i forgot to add :)

It really depends on the job. I have had several situations in which I hated developing software for a certain application, and several situations where I loved it.

Right now I am involved in a start-up where I am hacking Python and maybe starting to do Django. It's a lot of fun to write code that will be applied to real life. For example, I wrote a script that saved 1 guys many many hours of shitty work every week.

Study what you like and what you can imagine doing 8 hours a day in the future - If can already say that making UML diagrams and writing code is something you'd hate to do, don't consider becoming a software engineer.

I lost interest in private programming by doing it every day...
that sucks...

but it gives you the feeling, that you will never be jobless, what is kinda unusual nowadays in germany...

- how much pay ?
-> more that a crafter gets, less than a manager. and beware. Shit falls always down.
- what languages ?
-> if it is something math/asm related its payed better, but there are less jobs for that part. The business is going to web and SaaS, which means html/php/asp.net is state of the art to my mind.
- how many jobs available?
-> a lot
- would you recommend it?
-> It's okay if you like it. I didnt want if anymore after 3 years, but it was easy to get a next level as a consultant, which means more designing, less coding. Now I am happier

http://programmers.stackexchange.com might not be a bad place to go for information on this topic

Also, something you don't mind hating. Because you WILL.

i'll be curious to know how much very skilled programmers here (the ones who release major 4k, 64k and demos each year) are actually working in the industry and how much are just doing this as a hobby (they don't fall in the trap)

I'd say consider carefully where you want to end up, not what job you'll get when you leave uni.

You might find you end up in some shitty dead-end job that payed ok to begin with, but you wanted to do some really fun work that pays great but takes some time and effort to get to. Sometimes it's worth taking some jobs you don't like for low pay, if it's giving you the skills you need to do what you really want to do.

Personally I've wanted to work for myself for quite some time, working at home in a nice place instead of some busy office, and working the projects and the hours I choose, not what is written on my contract.

So I worked at a big college, in a busy IT office, doing work I didn't really like. For around 10 years. But the hours and pay were ok, and in that time I built my own shit up, and now I work for me, at home. And life is pretty fucking great just now, the pain was worth it :)

I guess the point there is: pick your destination, don't just look at the first part of the journey and pick the easiest road.

Note that you can do a lot of *fun* development in non-IT industries. Personal experience : R&D in pharmaceutics and aeronautics industries needs lots of people good at math and with some serious development skills, to do things like data-mining and in-silico experiments... It usually pays very well, never gets boring, and rather free of all process and other shenanigans. However a master in data-mining or an other half-math, half-comp-sci discipline is the bare minimum, PhD is more like the norm for those jobs.

Weird, I still don't hate doing what I'm doing at work :)

I've done some very non-scientific interviewing at demo parties, and my findings have been that almost all proficient demo coders work as programmers/developers. I have yet to see, say, a construction worker or sheet metal welder, who's into demo coding. I know one HVAC/plumber entrepreneur who used to be a C/C++ programmer, but he's not into demos.