Releasing at parties
category: general [glöplog]
Exactly. The sceners, and the people releasing a prod in the same competition are more likely to be able to vote properly looking at tiny details that took a lot of work to do that the public won't be able to see.
The public is like:
funny joke = 10 points
mario!! = 10 points
boobs = 20 points
wow, this demo is super long and with a lot of parts = 10 points
uhm.. how do they did that? anyway.. it's boring!!! = 0 points
So what was the demoscene all about again?
The public is like:
funny joke = 10 points
mario!! = 10 points
boobs = 20 points
wow, this demo is super long and with a lot of parts = 10 points
uhm.. how do they did that? anyway.. it's boring!!! = 0 points
So what was the demoscene all about again?
Oxb: following you, FLT demos should rank very low in compos since they are usually hacked together right before the compos. That just doesn't make any sense. Moreover a fun prod can demand much more work than a so-called "serious prod".
And I fail to see why fun prods should be released out of any compo/party. The most boring compos I watched were the ones with only serious pompous prods (usually made by whiners who claimed they should have won, no matter what).
Jury vote or public vote, it's all the same, this boring debate has been there for 15 years or something. Everybody's criteria are different, fortunately. Let serious people vote for serious stuff and let people who want to be entertained vote for prods they found the most entertaining.
People who still can't live with that can either not enter compos or go create their own compos with a jury made of bots analyzing for each entry the complity of the shaders, the robustness of the code, the number of textures in the datafile and the off-key stuff in the soundtrack. They will have fun!
And I fail to see why fun prods should be released out of any compo/party. The most boring compos I watched were the ones with only serious pompous prods (usually made by whiners who claimed they should have won, no matter what).
Jury vote or public vote, it's all the same, this boring debate has been there for 15 years or something. Everybody's criteria are different, fortunately. Let serious people vote for serious stuff and let people who want to be entertained vote for prods they found the most entertaining.
People who still can't live with that can either not enter compos or go create their own compos with a jury made of bots analyzing for each entry the complity of the shaders, the robustness of the code, the number of textures in the datafile and the off-key stuff in the soundtrack. They will have fun!
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MHO, the goal should be to reward the amount of work involved in a creating process, it ain't completely about being bored or having fun (which is the case in parties votes).
I thought it was about making good demos.
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I can agree that a good idea is often more interesting than a load of massive effect,
Always. In my opinion. Massive effects without direction or concepts are a bore, like the Cocoon demo this whole thing started from, or the fairlight demo from the Intel competition.
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but the goal of demo is to demonstrate first with the bigscreen, the PA, and all those stuff that make a demo entertaining, huh?
Is it? What if I said, that in my demos the goals have always been to enjoy making them. Are they demos anymore?
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Let's have the funny prod and all those things released BETWEEN demoparties.
So we can have only the demos you like on the big screen?
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Oh, I forgot to mention that there's hardly demos released BETWEEN parties, not to say none. Even the invitro are released during parties.
This is sad indeed..
(complexity of the shaders)
+ I totally agree with Preacher (once again)
+ and I agree with keops.
What styx suggested about voting is quite good. Having a fixed amount of points to distribute to the entries...
What styx suggested about voting is quite good. Having a fixed amount of points to distribute to the entries...
Yeah, I also like the idea of giving points, instead of sorting actually.
Did anyone mention the scene.org awards yet ?
scene.org awards? they never give the awards to the demos that should have got them!!! ;)
It's the Nordic Conspiracy...
no, I'm saying:
there is a discussion here about the merits/problems of public voting. How does that compare, then, to scene.org awards (which is jury based).
I personally don't have a problem with either...
there is a discussion here about the merits/problems of public voting. How does that compare, then, to scene.org awards (which is jury based).
I personally don't have a problem with either...
trace: If the majority of our scene prefer boobs/mario/jokes in demos and votes for those (and no, I don't think this is usually the case), what the heck is wrong with that?
I do however agree that *if* someone goes with jury-based voting, "form a jury of everyone who has submitted something into that compo" would probably the best way to do it - because it at least has some form of justification ("they all invested into the compo"), unlike jury-based voting seen at the scene.org awards and typical party preselection teams.
I still highly prefer visitor-based voting. You should have to make sure your visitors suck. So, organize a decent demoparty with only sceners taking part, and you are set - "the scene has decided" - and if someone who hasn't visited the party complains why people at the party voted according to what they've felt during the compo (keep in mind that a lot of demos are quite different when watched on the bigscreen) you can reply them "well, your fault, you could have joined the party and voted".
I do however agree that *if* someone goes with jury-based voting, "form a jury of everyone who has submitted something into that compo" would probably the best way to do it - because it at least has some form of justification ("they all invested into the compo"), unlike jury-based voting seen at the scene.org awards and typical party preselection teams.
I still highly prefer visitor-based voting. You should have to make sure your visitors suck. So, organize a decent demoparty with only sceners taking part, and you are set - "the scene has decided" - and if someone who hasn't visited the party complains why people at the party voted according to what they've felt during the compo (keep in mind that a lot of demos are quite different when watched on the bigscreen) you can reply them "well, your fault, you could have joined the party and voted".
"You should have to make sure your visitors suck" = "You just have to make sure your visitors DON'T suck".
EXTRA EXTRA! YES = NO! READ ALL ABOUT IT AT THE NEXT HUGI!
Preacher and Keops: we know some trolling is found in my posting. I must confess. Anyway, my last party experience so far was the Breakpoint06 and all I can say is that I still wonder what was so funny in all those badly released and absolutely boring (with my boring factor) prods shown on the bigscreen. This was just a bad trip to me.
If, for whatever reason, this kind of thing appears to tease the crowd (like, i.e: David Hasselhof against Chuck Norris fight) and ranks very high, what about the respect due to the work involved in "serious and pompous" demos with months of work (and which is most of time sounding with "good demos")?
It was just my thought. Can be different from yours, no prob. But again, I know this debate since my first steps in demoscene and parties, well, back in 1991 or so ! It won't change dudes. No, it won't.
If, for whatever reason, this kind of thing appears to tease the crowd (like, i.e: David Hasselhof against Chuck Norris fight) and ranks very high, what about the respect due to the work involved in "serious and pompous" demos with months of work (and which is most of time sounding with "good demos")?
It was just my thought. Can be different from yours, no prob. But again, I know this debate since my first steps in demoscene and parties, well, back in 1991 or so ! It won't change dudes. No, it won't.
having been twice disqualified from breakpoint, I know they have some decent quality control!
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l33t !
better at the party than at home. but i still understand how it won thus I thumb up for the great surprise on the metalzvote members face when they were on the stage. proof that it was just for fun and the audience decided.
Your comment and thumb up on Winner Demo Oxb. Please, try to make sense already ;)
oh wait, the first time it was mekka&symposium, not breakpoint. habits die hard.
keops: I think a "don't" is missing between still and understand. I never thought it should have won. Really.
That's a fact, the audience decided, not me. It was really funny during the party and its coldness (both in the air and on the screen!) but I never voted for it as first in the compo.
That's a fact, the audience decided, not me. It was really funny during the party and its coldness (both in the air and on the screen!) but I never voted for it as first in the compo.
(et puis c'est pas très gentil d'être méchant) ;)
SAI TOI LE MECHANT :)
On the other hand I hate this kind of demos but they belong to party compos anyway, among the boring serious flybies and the all the rest imo :)
On the other hand I hate this kind of demos but they belong to party compos anyway, among the boring serious flybies and the all the rest imo :)
Anyway the whole topic is pretty much ranting for ranting's sake. The discussion's been done countless times with the same results. Competitions aren't fair, that's the way they are and the way they will always be.
(And there's nothing wrong with that, I must point out, since competitions' trying to solve an impossible problem)
one thing to learn from this thread is that it seems to be clear that evoke can be improved by using partymeister. there were no arguments for keeping their own system, so i hope they will drop it next year.
when it comes to voting systems Skrebbel is the absolute master, he coded the one for Outline 2007 during the demo compo... and it worked! :-)
