Open source Nebula Engine ruins the scene

category: general [glöplog]
Who cares, the scene is dead.
added on the 2009-05-16 15:10:06 by teel teel
Link plz?
Not for the "the scene is dead", but for the 3D engine...
added on the 2009-05-16 18:21:21 by prodigy prodigy
Google is out friend (...), but just for clarity, links should be part of the info.
I almost accidentally the verb...
added on the 2009-05-16 18:24:55 by prodigy prodigy
if you use nebula in your demo, you need to state it somewhere. and if you state it somewhere, no one would honor your code anymore. so coders would barely use it. simple as that.

and i need to second teel :)
added on the 2009-05-16 18:57:32 by pro pro
Game engines do not contain demo effects. End of story.
added on the 2009-05-16 18:58:27 by gloom gloom
Game engines do not contain demo effects. End of story.



Remember the old times, where more-or-less you had to reinvent the wheel every single time whenever you created demos? The oldsk00l way is just that. I love oldsk00l BTW - I grew up with demos of that era.

Now, we have computers powerful enough to show extremely detailed 3D scenes in realtime, multichannel sound and other cool stuff such as frameworks/engines/tools/etc. As I see it, having all those tools at our disposal places us in the position where we only have to decide what to show/play. The 'how' part is simply learning to use some tools. OK, it's not as simple as pushing a few buttons, but easy enough. So, now that we can actually use powerful tools to make our lives/demos/etc. easier/happier, we have people complaining that it is too easy to make a demo. WTF?

Stop complaining and/or make a demo yourselves! If it makes you happy, do not use any of the tools available. Heck, do not use anything at all, but pure code, images and sound samples. Plus, no APIs for you. OpenGL, DirectX and the like are all out of the question. Do you want 3D models? Well, feel free to use something like the POVRAY language, or even VRML. BUT… …you have to build the model by hand and paper. No fancy 3D modelers for you mate. Lets see how good your demo will be, when you not only have to have a good concept and ideas but you also have to hack some (or, more likely, a lot of) code in order to display a few thousand textured, trilinear filtered, perspective corrected b-splines. Oh, and I don’t want any clipping glitches either, or else!...

Of course there are (old) demos with seemingly simple graphics (grafix?;-) routines that have a lot of feeling. You have to be a Master to create something like this, but it does not hurt to try. If someone just replies 'omg, this suxxx' or something along those lines, it's pretty safe to simply ignore this opinion.

<Interruption from a Skype call />

Where was I?, Oh, right... Well, I lost my train of though, so I don't have something else to say (write) for the time.

Just to sum it up: We have the tools! We can concentrate on the content!! We should be happy!!!

Now, go and make a demo reply.

Best regards to all
added on the 2009-05-16 19:55:32 by prodigy prodigy
minus: keep in mind that as some of the "tools" you mention are there to compensate for more complicated/sophisticated hardware. I would say that it all sums up to zero, at most.

It is certainly not the case that
we only have to decide what to show/play.
in the sense that anything you could dream up, in terms of effects and stuff, is possible with today's hardware. This is not the first time I've heard this claim, and it sounds strange to me that this mythhasn't been put to sleep yet.

I've seen both the good old, and the brave new world, and I have to say it is more difficult now than before.
added on the 2009-05-16 20:16:31 by Hyde Hyde
Myth? Oh well, it seems then that I'm on the romantic side of things...
As far as the 'it is more difficult now than before' goes, I think that the only real problem is the lack of time...
...plus the lack of Engines of course! ;-)
added on the 2009-05-16 20:32:59 by prodigy prodigy
no one would honor your code anymore.


Hey, I've just had a great idea! People should use or build whichever tools they think will help them to enjoy their work and make good demos! No, wait, that's crazy talk.
added on the 2009-05-17 03:04:32 by gasman gasman
the demoscene needs more great graphicians and directors. if using the nebula engine enables a team to create a fantastic demo that would not have been created otherwise, then that is a win for the demoscene.

added on the 2009-05-17 13:36:56 by chaos chaos
chaos: I guess it is kind of what happened on the "good" old time between Atari and Amiga. For a long time Amiga demos had a way better design compared to Atari demo, if only because the people did not had to spend the same amount of time to just have something displayed on screen at a decent frame rate :)
added on the 2009-05-17 14:58:16 by Dbug Dbug
I second chaos. Not because he is chaos'fr.

Anyone rember "demopaja" ? An API that many demos was made.

And for @prodigy

seems that I cant code, but you can. Instead bashing me, do something like chaos, ryg, or team iq^mentor. Its not my fault that your "engine" cant compete against Nebula.

And forthcoming ArcaniA aka Gothic 4 uses "Vision Game Engine 7" and for my research Vision engine is German based...so chaos and ryg involved? ;)
added on the 2009-05-20 08:19:56 by moredhel moredhel
jesus...not available.
added on the 2009-05-20 08:26:04 by moredhel moredhel
I see, after unssi & ep there was this sudden void that just had to be filled..
added on the 2009-05-20 08:51:35 by 216 216
the demoscene needs less moredhel. if not using the nebula engine enables us to get rid of him that would not have been possible otherwise, then that is a win for the demoscene.
added on the 2009-05-20 08:53:14 by decipher decipher
Because everything that ever comes from Germany has chaos and ryg involved! Of course!

(our CTO at work is German... I wonder whether he's chaos or ryg? does anyone know?)
added on the 2009-05-20 08:57:23 by NeARAZ NeARAZ
we germans seem to have adopted the habit of claiming that we have invented the computer, the transistor, <insert-groundbreaking-stuff-here> anyway. so in effect yes, everything known to man comes from germany. even smash, iq, mentor, asd, andromeda and tbl.

actually, chaos and ryg are the inventors behind all this (travelling thru space and time).
added on the 2009-05-20 09:43:17 by spike spike
Because everything that ever comes from Germany has chaos and ryg involved! Of course!

Yes it does, but we don't talk about that.

In public.

Just yet.
added on the 2009-05-20 10:28:00 by ryg ryg
we germans seem to have adopted the habit of claiming that we have invented the computer, the transistor

Eh, (US-)Americans claim the same. :)

But actually, everything was invented by Telsa anyway.
added on the 2009-05-20 10:29:46 by tomaes tomaes

added on the 2009-05-20 10:30:19 by tomaes tomaes
...and Tesla was invented by ryg, of course.
added on the 2009-05-20 11:04:00 by NeARAZ NeARAZ
As far as transistors are concerned, I'm afraid the Hungarians win:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Edgar_Lilienfeld (patent filed for the MOSFET on October 22, 1925 - in Canada, not the US).

We rocked at rocketry though!

Tesla though... he just used electricity, but your scientists invented electricity.
added on the 2009-05-20 12:15:07 by ryg ryg
You can't argue with a guy who has a death ray machine at his disposal.

That there's still no epic Hollywood bio-pic about this man is astonishing.
added on the 2009-05-20 12:31:38 by tomaes tomaes
("The Prestige" doesn't count)
added on the 2009-05-20 12:33:03 by tomaes tomaes