pouët.net

Maali: you good old troll ;-)

Taken from Hugi 35 - Disruption in Chaos Theory :)

"For the Africans, looting, rape, nepotism, corruption, clan warfare, superstition and impulsive homicide are business as usual. If Africans come to form the majority in a country outside Africa, the country turns African. This has already happened e.g. in Haiti, which curiously resembles its African counterparts because its society has been torn apart by Bolshevist-style anarchy and voodoo culture. If we could have 100 black men from Africa and 100 white men from Europe, 100 black men would be about to commit more crimes than 100 white men. The reason for this is that people with a lower IQ are about to commit more crimes than people with a high IQ. It is proven by the criminal rate statistics of every European country. So it means "immigrants from Africa and Middle East are about to commit more crimes than the average European." "

I had a fuckin bad heavy headache that very night they started that raveparty in the sleeping hall. I would have liked to loot the party, to rape the goddamn organizers in return, but then I again I did not, cause that would have meant behaving like an African ;)

but who the fuck still cares about that except El Magico? nobody.

btw: everything related to sound/volume was perfectly done on BP and Evoke. no complaints here, only compliments.

Rowley: you good old troll you ;-)

Sir: just an example from times almost long forgotten.. but it did ruin the party 95 for me a little.. that and no carpet on the concreet ;-)

"RAVE party in the sleeping hall"
haha. that was one of the greatest moments in demoparty history ever. if only we had a sleeping area at BP :(

i remember walking around looking for a spot to sleep - outside the sleeping hall at that TP.

A couple did agree -- on what is still uncertain. I guess they agreed on having attended a party at some point which was loud to them. As with every public forum debate, usually the people with a problem are the ones shouting the loudest. Since nobody is really shouting here, and only a few seem to agree that volume levels at demo parties (wow, talk about a broad subject btw) is a problem. By that definition, "most people" -- as in: most of the people debating in this thread -- doesn't seem to have a big problem with it, or if they do, they have a solution for it (like tell the people being loud to stop being loud, wear earplugs or go outside while the noise levels are the highest).

That sentence was a bit hard to parse, but if I understand it correctly you mean: "Since loudness is a problem for some people, would it really be that much of a loss for people who prefer high levels to reduce the sound-levels so as to please them?"

I guess not, but here's the thing: you have to DEFINE what you find unbearable: is it the general noise-level at demo parties, that they are GENERALLY too loud? If so, maybe you should consider bringing earplugs or go to parties which have a big outdoor component so that the noise doesn't bother you that much, because I would say that most people find the noise levels at demo parties not only acceptable, but also expected.

If you are talking about specific instances or episodes where the sound level has gotten so high that it has been a problem for many people, then you should take that up with the organizers at that party -- right then and there. Sitting quietly and not doing anything except go online and bitch about it afterwards = fail. Most party organizers are human beings and are full capable of getting feedback from their guests. :)

If you are refering to compos being too loud, then tough luck: use earplugs, go outside or do something else at that time. Compos are supposed to be loud -- comfortably loud -- not horrible-EQ-"who-set-up-this-PA!?"-loud of course, but still: loud. That's they way compos are :)

And finally, the idea that all demoparties are constant 120 dB ear-bleed-fests -- I don't buy it. They are not. :)

Well I put what would be bearable several pages ago.



That's all. That's not much of a difference in most parties, but it's a day-and-night difference for people like me.

I have been refering to the BP as a specific occurence of too much loudness exposure. If organizers can ensure this rule it will be far more bearable for some (how many ?). The discussion shown when you don't have that it's not the fault of the organizers but private PA's, even though it sounds pretty much like the official PA. The solution is up to the organizers.



Well, it all seeemed organized (maybe an official DJ set and I hate to annoy DJs while they are busy). I didn't tell precisely not to annoy other sceners and the organizers and because loudness is a intended in demoparties like you said. Now it is a thread to ask if anyone feel the same, that's all. I got what I deserved, thanks.

I did everything I could not to get ear damage but in the case of demoparties the sound is especially unavoidable (you usually have something to finish before the deadline and being in an hotel all the time is more expensive / no fun). You discover the damage (if any) after the party.


Earplugs do not work against long exposures to basses. Trust me.

Wearing earplugs and is in practice uneffective for long exposures, since they are generally too small to protect against basses, which are the real problem after just 6h.

To me the fear of renewed tinnitus/hyperacusis/hear loss creates pain and stress during the party which prevent most of the enjoyment to be there. I make a wild guess and say most of those who ever had a tinnitus feel a bit the same and are actively avoiding loudness at parties, but they didn't show up that much in this thread so maybe it would be the right time to do so (only me and ham did).

Maybe you are right and nothing has to be done. It's a thread to ask if anyone feel the same, not to be called "sissies" by random people on the internet.

Btw I've been organizing 10+ very small scale or helped at medium-scale electronic parties prior to the demoscene. So I understand the need for volume and bass, people really like it. But even in long parties loudness was not a problem since the exposure did not last more than 12 hours. I'm 23 yo, I'm not too old for this stuff yet going to a demoparty is not worth the risk to me.

Alright, the name calling is kinda lame, but as kb already said, BP turned off their system for 8 hours a night. The sound you are mostly complaining about is personal PA's.

And seriously dude, there is no way parties will ban personal sound setups. Just saying.

Actually, they do. Yes, your body will feel the bass, but your ears will be protected.

And just to clarify, I'm not calling you a sissy, I'm just saying that the most effective way of reducing noise at a party is to be present and let people know about it. You're not going to arrive at some consensus as to what is considered "too loud" or get a common standard for how long compos can be loud by reading or contributing to this thread. :)

This is false.
By 3 times I had hearing loss after an event while having earplugs constantly. It is mentionned several times in the thread that I was constantly wearing earplugs @ BP.


Who talked about compos ?
I've understood you don't care but others could.

I'd have nothing against banning personal audio systems ;) I don't really worry about my ears that much as I mostly wear earplugs, but it makes having a conversation a lot harder.

No need to ban audio systems, just asking to respect an audio break.
Everything in this thread is either not read or distorted.

You're right, telling orgas (even with a mail afterward) is better than posting on pouet.
(JSYK, we did tell MAIN orgas - during and after the mainparty #4 - and it was better at main #5, thanks btw).

Still, now there is a thead about it.

Since you've now tried three times to make straw-man arguments out of my posts, I guess you've proven you're not really interested in a debate at all, good night then. Good luck with your bass-troubles.

(ponce, that is)

Yes, this thread better die.

And since people shouting about loudness aren't any credible, everything is fine. I won't bit your tautology, ha!



If I were nitpicking I'd point that the alliteration is lost and that there was no "since", but apart from this, yes. :-)



I'm pretty sure we have figures about what is healthy and what is not. Legal levels would be a good start. I didn't feel there was anything to condemn on that side at Breakpoint nor Evoke, but Main sounded really loud at moments. Now again even within legal boundaries duration of the exposure is an important factor. According to a quick Googling, you're not supposed to be exposed more than 8 hours to 95dB, and you have to halve this duration every 5dB.



The thread wasn't exactly opened with "Fucking to organizers for making the parties too loud!" either. Also note that it's not as much about complaining afterwards than considering to do something from this point forward.

I also believe there's a cultural part: when you attend a party with hundreds of people, you don't expect to be able to mention that the sound is too loud, and certainly not expect the organizers to give a shit about your complain. At least that's what I observed in French parties (ie, not scene related).



I don't think either. But I'd be curious too see what the actual levels are.

Well it sounds from this thread that they're not respected at all. How about agreeing on those breaks then? Hard alcohol and cigarettes aren't allowed in the hall either, so what about declaring pauses, or not allowing personnal stuff to be too loud?

Someone said that when some scener is too loud, you can ask to lower the volume. Am I the only one to feel that if anyone puts it's system outloud, it's to annoy in the first place? You know, the usual "hey listen everybody how I kick teh shit out of ma lowend sound system!". Oh, on that last sentence, yes, I am completely bitching afterwards.

Zavie: Gloom is right i don't think anything good will ever come up from this thread. This is pouet afterall.

If you suffer from ear-problems to an extend where normal, cheap earplugs won't prevent further damager, you should go to any music-store which will have several nice earplugs that are custom-fit and is not just a one-size-fits-all blob of industry-foam. Gloom is right about earplugs effectively preventing damage to your hearing - it might just depend on the earplugs you use.

Another rather important point, is the music in compo-entries, which is by far not always suitable for large PA-setups. I might step on someone's toes here, but as I see it, most of the problem are from musicians using their cheap hi-fi stereo with $2 headphones while composing the music. They care not about frequency response of PA-systems or anything else. At least one entry will bear proof that it was created on some hi-fi amplifier with the bass-knob turned way up to give that extra hill-billy oomph when partying with friends. When that tune is then replayed on a large PA-system, you get nothing but screatchy noise and high-pitched distortion.

Why hasn't someone created a PA VST plugin or plugin for some mp3-player, that mimicks the frequency response of an avarage PA-system? I know the setups vary extremely, but it should be possible to reach a decent level of similarity that would at least hint to the musician, that he's on the way down the wrong track (so to speak)

I sleep better with noise around me.. tho loudness that stands out in the overall noise floor does wake me up... sleeping in the economy class ferry cabins with the sound from the diesel engines .. mmmmmmm....

I'm not one of those who defend loudness on parties, but as some doctor told me you can get ear-problems not only when it's too loud, but also when you don't sleep enough or when you dehydrate.

my doctor told me that you can only get ear-problems when exposed to loud music, ie. get out of the danger zone