Open sourcing pouet.net ?
category: offtopic [glöplog]
*fart*
Or well, what gargaj sad on the previous page:
Quote:
Short version: All the personal misunderstanding bullshit has been dealt with, I have access again, whee.
So now back to our original situation: The sources are now all open (yay?) but the DB is still a disaster, and the next-stage-development is still a bit of a blur. I would very much like to resume work on my 2.0 codebase so we can at least have the prospect of migrating and then clearing up the DB in sight, whether open or not open (in terms of crowd-sourcing) is not a factor for me and I'll leave that up to the masses to decide. Again, after we switched to 2.0 and cleaned up the DB, we'll be a lot more open towards going with newer standards, but at this point I do believe we need an intermediate step towards it, a step where we actually can cease dealing with leftover / legacy crap, the site working and adding new features not being a pain. So that's my umpteenth proposal once again.
As far as the db dumps go, I'm gonna send Netpoet an email and ask about the legalities. If he says go, I can throw one out after cleaning out the non-public / personal data.
What Gargaj said. I think the best way from here on is incremental updates to whatever goal will crystallize in the future, and I'd rather do that with the way more structured v2 codebase.
Pouet2's layout needs improvement (or readjustment of viewer habits) but that's a round of small bugfixes that OSS is predestined for, hm? :)
Pouet2's layout needs improvement (or readjustment of viewer habits) but that's a round of small bugfixes that OSS is predestined for, hm? :)
So what gargaj is suggesting is the he finish the v2, but for now we hold of on
and then once v2 is in place, we can add REST APIs to our hearts content?
Considering the events of the last week, I think transparency is a good idea. Maybe do the development in the open, allow the community to submit patches, but be dictatorial about what goes in and what does not? So your vision can remain intact until the first version is ready, but we can still follow along and make comments. Okay, reading that back, sounds a little creepy :-) Dunno, just a thought.
- feature requests
- webdev buzzword compliance
and then once v2 is in place, we can add REST APIs to our hearts content?
Considering the events of the last week, I think transparency is a good idea. Maybe do the development in the open, allow the community to submit patches, but be dictatorial about what goes in and what does not? So your vision can remain intact until the first version is ready, but we can still follow along and make comments. Okay, reading that back, sounds a little creepy :-) Dunno, just a thought.
In the mean time fix my account Gargaj or Analogue Thank you very much!
magic: ps sort of tried to fix it, but luckily analogue reverted that "fix".
Quote:
Pouet2's layout needs improvement (or readjustment of viewer habits)
Yeah, because the problems isn't in the interface design but in the user ;)... Seriously though, I think the current layout is actually pretty great, some sort of a heuristical evaluation or user study via contextual inquiry or something would be interesting.
Tomoya: can I add prods. again ? If not than its not fixed yet!
magic: We have enough work as it is already.
Tomoya: later in the week than will be fine..
Dude. What I meant is that you often submitted prods incorrectly, giving us gloperators more work. I dunno, you can ask other gloperators to let you in, not me.
than I apologies for that (it were just indicents and already some years ago!)
Now please let some1 fix it. thanx
Now please let some1 fix it. thanx
I'm not the only gloperator here, this must be a collective opinion.
would be a nice feature though for future developement. So the users can add/correct stuff themselfs instead of some staff member ;)
Anyway its has been more than 3 years already. Please fix it..
Anyway its has been more than 3 years already. Please fix it..
Ah, it's so good to see how this has turned out in the end! Thanks for your apology analogue. And apologies from me for any ruckus I've caused along the way.
Quote:
by magic:
In the mean time fix my account Gargaj or Analogue Thank you very much!
It is hard-coded into the source. Also, this probably isn't the place for that. Because this thread is ending:
Quote:
by analogue:
Hey,
I want to give my apologies to you guys -- the scene keeping pouet alive -- for having done more bad than good, while trying to do the reverse.
I reacted when I should have thought about things more, and listened more.
I'm also sorry to all the sceners that I know, you know who you are, and thank you for helping me understand what really happened here. It sure is a lesson.
I'm not gonna talk in place of other people, Garg especially, but know that things are being worked out.
If you have any concern about pouet, feel free to ask.
I hope some of you will accept my apologies.
++
Quote:
by Gargaj:
Short version: All the personal misunderstanding bullshit has been dealt with, I have access again, whee.
So now back to our original situation: The sources are now all open (yay?) but the DB is still a disaster, and the next-stage-development is still a bit of a blur. I would very much like to resume work on my 2.0 codebase so we can at least have the prospect of migrating and then clearing up the DB in sight, whether open or not open (in terms of crowd-sourcing) is not a factor for me and I'll leave that up to the masses to decide. Again, after we switched to 2.0 and cleaned up the DB, we'll be a lot more open towards going with newer standards, but at this point I do believe we need an intermediate step towards it, a step where we actually can cease dealing with leftover / legacy crap, the site working and adding new features not being a pain. So that's my umpteenth proposal once again.
As far as the db dumps go, I'm gonna send Netpoet an email and ask about the legalities. If he says go, I can throw one out after cleaning out the non-public / personal data.
Quote:
by psonice:
Ah, it's so good to see how this has turned out in the end! Thanks for your apology analogue. And apologies from me for any ruckus I've caused along the way.
Please don't take any of this the wrong way, but thank you analogue. I haven't been here long, but it was sad to see this all. I hope we can all work together to achieve what we want without fighting over it.
However, that said, I think we need a lot more of things like psonice said from people who participated in this thread (like me). There's more than one reason at fault as to why this is 41 pages. There was definitely a lot of side-taking and fear mongering. Not cool..
To that end, I am sorry for any part I played in making this worse instead of helping it get better. That's not really the kind of behavior I should be known for.
Let's all hope we can get to:
(yes, I did just want an excuse to use that GIF, sorry it's big.)
It's all about love, which won again. Great, awesome. I didn't expect less from you guys. Really glad you sorted it out. L'amour to you and stuff.
Just got beta access to Demozoo and I have to say that even in its current that, it's in many ways greatly superior to Pouet, while still missing some essential features. From this day on I'll be advocating the transition from Pouet to Demozoo in good time.
visy, i'm not sure whether commenting will be introduced in demozoo, so probably pouet will still remain the #1 place for discussions.
Props to analogue for the apologies.
---
I want to bring back the issue of main-scene-websites ownership.
First : for any website, from Google to pouet, the domain-name DOES matter, a lot. It's the brand, the bookmarks, the incoming links, the emails addresses, etc...
Together with the data, the code, the infrastructure, it's one of the main asset of a website.
Basically, who owns those things owns a website (sometimes the code will be the important stuff, sometimes the data, etc... in any case, the domainname is important).
It's a problem when a single person owns a vital demoscene website.
It's better if this website is owned by a a trustful organisation/the community as much as possible.
Speaking of Demozoo, I really hope it will succeed.
It's a great project, and I trust gasman.
But what if, in 2017, when everyone relies on api.demozoo.org for their demoscene apps & website, gasman eg forget to renew the domainname?
It will probably a mess during a couple of weeks at least.
So please, pouet & demozoo & others vital scene website owners/admins:
make sure
- your code is open (community ownership)
- your data is open & decentralized (community ownership)
- you service domainname is owned by a trustful organisation
---
I want to bring back the issue of main-scene-websites ownership.
First : for any website, from Google to pouet, the domain-name DOES matter, a lot. It's the brand, the bookmarks, the incoming links, the emails addresses, etc...
Together with the data, the code, the infrastructure, it's one of the main asset of a website.
Basically, who owns those things owns a website (sometimes the code will be the important stuff, sometimes the data, etc... in any case, the domainname is important).
It's a problem when a single person owns a vital demoscene website.
It's better if this website is owned by a a trustful organisation/the community as much as possible.
Speaking of Demozoo, I really hope it will succeed.
It's a great project, and I trust gasman.
But what if, in 2017, when everyone relies on api.demozoo.org for their demoscene apps & website, gasman eg forget to renew the domainname?
It will probably a mess during a couple of weeks at least.
So please, pouet & demozoo & others vital scene website owners/admins:
make sure
- your code is open (community ownership)
- your data is open & decentralized (community ownership)
- you service domainname is owned by a trustful organisation
Quote:
by wullon:
- your code is open (community ownership)
I believe the Demozoo folks already promised that during their talk at Revision.
Quote:
by wullon:
- your data is open & decentralized (community ownership)
Unless I was mistaken at their Revision talk, it seemed to me anyone with an account could help maintain the Demozoo site (add new things, fix vandalism, update stuff ...). Very much similar to the Wikipedia approach.
Pouet is working on getting the data out for those who want it. When it gets APIs, as mentioned is coming, it will be easier to get live output of data.
Quote:
by wullon:
- you service domainname is owned by a trustful organisation
You already said you trust gasman, but there's more than just gasman working on Demozoo. I think I trust them to be capable of keeping it going or transferring the appropriate things if they no longer want to be a direct steward.
If this was really a jab at Pouet, it has managed to keep the domain name as far as I've known and across several caretakers. I think despite the entirety of things in this thread, that there's no reason to believe someone would drop the ball like that. Plus, I get a at least two or so e-mails about reregistering my domain when it comes up, and one physical mail from some place that wants me to transfer there. It's really really hard to forget! Even more so if you have it set to auto-renew. :)
Quote:
by wullon:
It's a problem when a single person owns a vital demoscene website.
It's better if this website is owned by a a trustful organisation/the community as much as possible.
I know I sort of responded to this above, but Gargaj is here to help out, analogue is willing to work with him, and psenough, and all the others who have contributed (or want to). The fact that they've "made up" already I think says they are the better men, not just can be the better men.
-----------
I think this is now on the good path to becoming sustainable with us all working together for the future better. Not to bring back up the "steamrolling amnesia" points, but we've resolved all those I think within this thread, or will have otherwise, and it might be best to not keep appending to this thread.
If you have issues with Demozoo, e-mail or talk to the Demozoo folk. They're not scary to talk to! I think they'd be happy to answer you, just not here. I think the same thing with Pouet. If you have any remaining issues, they should be ask the webmaster, Gargaj, or analogue, etc.
One last quick point, besides asking for forgiveness of my awful grammar above (and to think I'm a native English speaker!):
I forgot to mention Pouet above. We already have .9 in a repository, and immediate issues are being found and resolved. Gargaj has stated (see above) he wishes to return to working on 2.0, and that whether or not it is open source is not a factor for him. He already gave us a dump of it. So given most people's explicitly voiced wishes here, and analogue's wants as well, I have no reason to believe it wouldn't eventually get merged in to the existing repository or something worked out so it is in a public repository for all to access.
Quote:
by wullon:
- your code is open (community ownership)
I forgot to mention Pouet above. We already have .9 in a repository, and immediate issues are being found and resolved. Gargaj has stated (see above) he wishes to return to working on 2.0, and that whether or not it is open source is not a factor for him. He already gave us a dump of it. So given most people's explicitly voiced wishes here, and analogue's wants as well, I have no reason to believe it wouldn't eventually get merged in to the existing repository or something worked out so it is in a public repository for all to access.
magic: Be a gentleman and don't nag the admins so much. I know you want it badly but if a girl always says she's busy you need to take the hint that she's not interested in you.
This thread is also about apologies, forgive and forget and correcting stuff which was taken away (e.g. what analogue did with gargaj's account)
So after three years please fix it.. thanx!
So after three years please fix it.. thanx!
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