fr-055: 828: OFFICIAL FLAMETHREAD 2007 !
category: general [glöplog]
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what has really made me sad in the last few years about the demoscene is that the productions which aim for artistic content instead technicality always get so much shit thrown at them. every year i have less and less motivation to produce anything for compos.
So optimization and forcing boundaries arent art, but having music that the majority will dislike/find boring is? (Since i see nothing "artistic" about theese productions graphics compared to any other productions)
THERE IS NO SUPERIORITY IN ART... JUST DIFFERENT TASTES .. remember that uncle xen ;)
indeed bitch so probably all you wankers who masturbate over crappy textured 2d planes with artefacts as big as your head can accept that there are others who think that good demos shouldnt look bad. right?
you know i never dissed any plastic stuff lol :)
Hm.. on the issue of huge effort on 828 (not that it matters, as Gargaj points out) I personally cannot see it. It seems like a demo that was made over a very long period of time only because it was revisited every now and then. Also consider the fact that since it was scripted (werkkzeug) the producers probably spent less time on hard-coding it and more on putting together the art resources (which seem to be minimal as well).
Again, not that it matters. If nothing, a brilliant demo (well structured, well designed and executed) that was made in a short period of time would actually get more kudos points from me. Unfortunately I don't know how much time went into making (for example) IX by moppi, but if it was less than 1 month from start to finish then I would be quite amazed...
Speaking of 828, after seeing it many more times and thinking about it, I still don't like it (mainly because of execution issues - yeah that green/purple inversion was toe curling to say the least) but I do like the controversy surrounding it. It seems that it has stirred quite a few emotions to people whose opinion I respect. It is interesting from an anthropological point of view, if you catch my drift... Maybe the time has come when 'alternative' demos become more and more popular - a direction I try to actively follow with my group.
Again, not that it matters. If nothing, a brilliant demo (well structured, well designed and executed) that was made in a short period of time would actually get more kudos points from me. Unfortunately I don't know how much time went into making (for example) IX by moppi, but if it was less than 1 month from start to finish then I would be quite amazed...
Speaking of 828, after seeing it many more times and thinking about it, I still don't like it (mainly because of execution issues - yeah that green/purple inversion was toe curling to say the least) but I do like the controversy surrounding it. It seems that it has stirred quite a few emotions to people whose opinion I respect. It is interesting from an anthropological point of view, if you catch my drift... Maybe the time has come when 'alternative' demos become more and more popular - a direction I try to actively follow with my group.
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Maybe the time has come when 'alternative' demos become more and more popular
isnt that somewhat oxymoronic? :)
who knows, maybe in a few years time the "alternative" demos will be the ones *not* featuring noise+unclipped random polys. Then, in a bizarre twist of fate, mr "against the stream" Nosfe will bow to plastic and portal process :-).
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If you don't like demos to make you feel something and rather watch skillfully crafted animated characters that are "cool", you're retarded.
If you think that everybody should appreciate pseudo-visible noise effects on the spurious grounds that *you* feel it's great, ditto.
Sorry, but this discussion is more about the rabid reactions rather than the demo itself. Calm the fuck down, rainmaker :)
Demoscene 3D history:
Lines -> Boxes -> Toruses -> Buildings/Women (preferably nude) -> Bashed up objects that have no resemblance to shapes the mankind knows
Demoscene 2D history:
Ugly fonts -> Cool fonts -> Vallejo copies everywhere -> Photoshopped scans -> Psychotic generated rgb graphics
Demoscene music history:
Blipblop -> Soundtracker samplepacks sounds -> Sampling 80`s house/rave/etc music -> Cool original tracked music -> MP3 music -> Bizarre soundeffects looped
Lines -> Boxes -> Toruses -> Buildings/Women (preferably nude) -> Bashed up objects that have no resemblance to shapes the mankind knows
Demoscene 2D history:
Ugly fonts -> Cool fonts -> Vallejo copies everywhere -> Photoshopped scans -> Psychotic generated rgb graphics
Demoscene music history:
Blipblop -> Soundtracker samplepacks sounds -> Sampling 80`s house/rave/etc music -> Cool original tracked music -> MP3 music -> Bizarre soundeffects looped
you forgot code history:
rasters -> bobs -> vectors -> glenz -> texturemapping -> alphablending -> shaders -> "..\_start.cpp(2828) : directx error 8876017c (380)"
:P
rasters -> bobs -> vectors -> glenz -> texturemapping -> alphablending -> shaders -> "..\_start.cpp(2828) : directx error 8876017c (380)"
:P
Gargaj: Yeah, i forgot that one...LOL
that was nasty :D
I'd love to see some nude buildings..
and sweet fucking god! I JUST NOTICED THE PREVIEW BUTTON!!!
*mind = blown*
how long has that been there?
and sweet fucking god! I JUST NOTICED THE PREVIEW BUTTON!!!
*mind = blown*
how long has that been there?
around an hour at most. :D
Fuck the preview button.
It totally DESTROYS the whole idea of Pouet!
It's practically the same thing as thinking before posting!
It totally DESTROYS the whole idea of Pouet!
It's practically the same thing as thinking before posting!
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You forgot to say that pouet admins wasn't able to code the 'edit post' functionality in 6 years, not even a new design, tableless, or even move a finger to make the community a little bit more friendly.
Nice to have an alternative to pouet.net, I may change my bookmarks, thanks for the link Stelthz.
added on the 2006-10-28 by trace
(and yes it actually came in handy for this post)
(and yeah, edit post is kindof against my concepts of chronology)
paniq, are you saying that only products that please _everyone_ should be played in the compos?
sometimes 80% of audience like the prod, sometimes only 20%, it is never so that everyone feels the same way. i find most of the popular stuff boring, and i know many others who feel the same way and find the experimental/arty/whatever productions more intresting. but we dont ask for the popular stuff to be not shown. we'd just like to share what we feel is intresting. and sometimes people see it can be intresting. why is that such a big crime to you? why is it wrong that people try to get some variation in the compos?
but don't worry, you get what you want, i'm not gonna release anything at breakpoint this year.
i hope you'll use the few more extra minutes in your life well.
jobe, do it!
karlzzon^TiTAN, no i don't see optimization as art. but i can and do respect the skill/talent behind it.
sometimes 80% of audience like the prod, sometimes only 20%, it is never so that everyone feels the same way. i find most of the popular stuff boring, and i know many others who feel the same way and find the experimental/arty/whatever productions more intresting. but we dont ask for the popular stuff to be not shown. we'd just like to share what we feel is intresting. and sometimes people see it can be intresting. why is that such a big crime to you? why is it wrong that people try to get some variation in the compos?
but don't worry, you get what you want, i'm not gonna release anything at breakpoint this year.
i hope you'll use the few more extra minutes in your life well.
jobe, do it!
karlzzon^TiTAN, no i don't see optimization as art. but i can and do respect the skill/talent behind it.
This is as much alternative art as 828 can be.
Holy shit, I love the "Preview"-icon! :)
made personally by Stefan! (i think it fits a lot to the bbs)
I was well on my way to posting something really shocking and offensive and controversial and unheard of here. All the other "flames" in this socalled flame thread would have been put to shame. The scene would never be the same again, and I would probably have to go underground for a decade.
And then I discovered the preview-button.
And then I discovered the preview-button.
So funny reading this thread, because it's utterly pointless.
Once you have categorized demoscene productions as being art, it makes no sense to point out why one production is better than the next one.
You can call me a dickhead, a technically retarded chipmunk, a non-scener who ought to visit a wellknown shoppe, but it doesn't matter at all, because you can't decide what I should like or dislike.
On the other hand, you CAN try to put yourself in another person's place and try to see where they come from. We all know the Nosfe is pretty much into what we have chosen to call "alternative arts" (whatever that is???) and that's probably why he likes this demo so much (and he's not the only one, obviously) and once you're in his shoes it's not hard to see why this demo is so popular with Nosfe and people who think like him.
Still, I thought is was boring, because I need energy and upbeat music to get excited about demoscene productions, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the huge amounts of work and skill that has gone into productions such as "828" and "Lux aeterna luceat eis".
It's called empathy, my friends and some of you don't have enough of this.
Once you have categorized demoscene productions as being art, it makes no sense to point out why one production is better than the next one.
You can call me a dickhead, a technically retarded chipmunk, a non-scener who ought to visit a wellknown shoppe, but it doesn't matter at all, because you can't decide what I should like or dislike.
On the other hand, you CAN try to put yourself in another person's place and try to see where they come from. We all know the Nosfe is pretty much into what we have chosen to call "alternative arts" (whatever that is???) and that's probably why he likes this demo so much (and he's not the only one, obviously) and once you're in his shoes it's not hard to see why this demo is so popular with Nosfe and people who think like him.
Still, I thought is was boring, because I need energy and upbeat music to get excited about demoscene productions, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the huge amounts of work and skill that has gone into productions such as "828" and "Lux aeterna luceat eis".
It's called empathy, my friends and some of you don't have enough of this.
Archmage: The "Preview"-button is prefect for the BBS. You start to fill in your most offensive and fuck-you-ish post to date, and then you move your mouse-pointer down to the "Submit"-button.. But what is this?! "PrEvIew? Holy shit, I almost submitted a post that made me look like a DXM-member... *phu*!"
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It's called empathy, my friends and some of you don't have enough of this.
Nutman: So... what you are saying is that none of your friends have any empathy? ;)
(Yes, I am deliberately trying to derail this pointless thread, without the use of penis-pictures)