Releasing at parties
category: general [glöplog]
AS : "so perhaps the new Cocoon demo just lacked that one defining moment?"
For me, this "defining moment" was the goth girl with bubbles in her hands. And also the sequence with the oustanding Mech and the naked girl (very nice face with a friendly, though sad smile, which reminded me of the instructor character in the Universal War One French comics, btw...).
I guess it's all a matter of taste, anyway. :)
For me, this "defining moment" was the goth girl with bubbles in her hands. And also the sequence with the oustanding Mech and the naked girl (very nice face with a friendly, though sad smile, which reminded me of the instructor character in the Universal War One French comics, btw...).
I guess it's all a matter of taste, anyway. :)
primarily to win! Which doesn't mean that it's wrong to want to win, but if you create a crowd pleasing nostalgic jerkfest *just* to win, you are doing it wrong! (eventhough you walk away with quite some cash)
oh, and I'm not accusing Kaki for doing this actually, there demo has a certain 'cute' factor next to the jerkfest :) I was more thinking about crap like Obsoleet by Unreal Voodo.
oh, and I'm not accusing Kaki for doing this actually, there demo has a certain 'cute' factor next to the jerkfest :) I was more thinking about crap like Obsoleet by Unreal Voodo.
at least Obsoleet by Unreal Voodo HAS 3d graphics not a 3ds duck a an extruded mario sprite
when I release at a party, sure I'd like to win, and that is at the showing and before the price ceremony a very big factor in the thrilling department, but afterwards I kinda more care about if pouet people like it and if we get downloads... and to release at a big party gets more viewings and more downloads, however, due to the participants of a smaller party, and to support the party itself, that can be nice too.
nytrik: that's where you are narrowminded and I understand better why you threw shit at oldskool platforms on the thread now. Who cares if it's 1d, 2d or 3d? Using ps3.0 and 3D just for the sake of it regardless of any consistency is just plain stupid.
The technique must serve the concept, not the other way around. If a concept doesn't require 3D/HDR lightmaps/Normap maps/Cascaded shadowmaps or whatever new fancy word pleases you, why should we use them at all cost just to look cool and innovative?
Making a 1000th oldskool looking prod with a given concept is not any worse than doing a 1000th flyby with 3D meshes. The fact that one uses 3D meshs with textures does not make it any better.
The technique must serve the concept, not the other way around. If a concept doesn't require 3D/HDR lightmaps/Normap maps/Cascaded shadowmaps or whatever new fancy word pleases you, why should we use them at all cost just to look cool and innovative?
Making a 1000th oldskool looking prod with a given concept is not any worse than doing a 1000th flyby with 3D meshes. The fact that one uses 3D meshs with textures does not make it any better.
To elaborate on that "*sigh*" a bit (DISCLAIMER: I WAS DEAD DRUNK ALREADY AT THAT POINT AT BP):
Yes, we made mistakes when giving out the vote keys. Many of the organizers were already boozing themselves into sweet oblivion (because almost everything was over and after three days we finally wanted to celebrate too ;), and due to some simple logistic problems the two people primarily responsible for handing out the votekeys, though sober, weren't able to do so undisturbed. Other orgas came up, played with the vote keys, and through that a small number of keys may have gotten into the "wrong" hands. How many we don't know because frankly nobody remembers. That sunday night was one wild party way beyond any control and given that I think we managed not that bad.
The whole issue was due to the one systematic error in our otherwise totally infallible voting system ;): The keys had to be handed out by humans. And humans make mistakes, and a bunch of overworked drunkards does so with terrifying precision :)
Still the results of the competitions made sense, and the total number of votekeys given out was about within the statistical margin of the visitor number and the percentage of people who voted that we were used to in the past years. So whatever damage was done, it wasn't of any real significance... hopefully.
In any case, and as Scamp and Styx already said: Next year this will work WAY better; we already have some ideas written down how to improve at that front.
Yes, we made mistakes when giving out the vote keys. Many of the organizers were already boozing themselves into sweet oblivion (because almost everything was over and after three days we finally wanted to celebrate too ;), and due to some simple logistic problems the two people primarily responsible for handing out the votekeys, though sober, weren't able to do so undisturbed. Other orgas came up, played with the vote keys, and through that a small number of keys may have gotten into the "wrong" hands. How many we don't know because frankly nobody remembers. That sunday night was one wild party way beyond any control and given that I think we managed not that bad.
The whole issue was due to the one systematic error in our otherwise totally infallible voting system ;): The keys had to be handed out by humans. And humans make mistakes, and a bunch of overworked drunkards does so with terrifying precision :)
Still the results of the competitions made sense, and the total number of votekeys given out was about within the statistical margin of the visitor number and the percentage of people who voted that we were used to in the past years. So whatever damage was done, it wasn't of any real significance... hopefully.
In any case, and as Scamp and Styx already said: Next year this will work WAY better; we already have some ideas written down how to improve at that front.
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we already have some ideas written down how to improve at that front.
A jury? :D
no, just ideas how to make the wristband<->votekey exchange foolproof enough that even Breakpoint organizers can handle it :)
Scamp: There are bad ways of responding to criticism… and then there are _very_ bad ways. Jeeez…
Guess I was very wrong in thinking that this maybe was something you’d want to root out of your system for next time. So OK, I’ll take that cup right now and water it out with kb’s less hot headed comment, whereas you might consider leaving that PR bit to him in the very near future.
As for the “lamer”-bit: ...
Guess I was very wrong in thinking that this maybe was something you’d want to root out of your system for next time. So OK, I’ll take that cup right now and water it out with kb’s less hot headed comment, whereas you might consider leaving that PR bit to him in the very near future.
As for the “lamer”-bit: ...
kb: firebranding the votekey directly on visitor's wrist? cool, i'll be there :)
Imagine all the slengpung pictures! "Here's X crying out in pain"
times changed, and with the initiation of cutters on slengpung, this could as well be:
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Imagine all the slengpung pictures! "Here's X wanting yet another key"
Archmage, I am a scener, you are a scener. I'm not the PR department of Breakpoint. If I think you are talking out of your ass, I very openly will say so, no matter how unprofessional that may look.
Assuming we are part of some evil voting plot or don't care is extremely insulting, even if that might not be obvious to you. I don't mind personal attacks into my direction, but attacking Breakpoint indeed makes me hot headed - because it is an attack on something a lot of people trust on.
The next time you see something at Breakpoint that you think is not OK, please use the advertised communication channels to the team - mail to the hotline mail address works best. You should even be able to ask back through a second channel (direct contact to an organizer you trust for example), in case you don't get a timely response. Assuming we don't care about those things (or worse, implying a conspiracy like you did) isn't a nice thing to do. We do care, and we did care also in this case, as I outlined already.
And to point out some facts:
- I did not brag about the "infailability of your system". It's not "our" system (the concept of votekey-in-exchange-for-giving-back-the-badge) has been invented by Mekka&Symposium IIRC, the score system has been setup by TUM and partymeister IIRC, and I didn't brag about it, but simply stated that it generally works pretty good.
- I didn't call the incident you claim to have seen to be insignificant. I've to trust the words of the involved organizers. However, you have been the only visitors to report such an incident, and the the problem is long solved. The conclusion is that calling the whole votekey process at Breakpoint a "farce" is off-base by far.
Assuming we are part of some evil voting plot or don't care is extremely insulting, even if that might not be obvious to you. I don't mind personal attacks into my direction, but attacking Breakpoint indeed makes me hot headed - because it is an attack on something a lot of people trust on.
The next time you see something at Breakpoint that you think is not OK, please use the advertised communication channels to the team - mail to the hotline mail address works best. You should even be able to ask back through a second channel (direct contact to an organizer you trust for example), in case you don't get a timely response. Assuming we don't care about those things (or worse, implying a conspiracy like you did) isn't a nice thing to do. We do care, and we did care also in this case, as I outlined already.
And to point out some facts:
- I did not brag about the "infailability of your system". It's not "our" system (the concept of votekey-in-exchange-for-giving-back-the-badge) has been invented by Mekka&Symposium IIRC, the score system has been setup by TUM and partymeister IIRC, and I didn't brag about it, but simply stated that it generally works pretty good.
- I didn't call the incident you claim to have seen to be insignificant. I've to trust the words of the involved organizers. However, you have been the only visitors to report such an incident, and the the problem is long solved. The conclusion is that calling the whole votekey process at Breakpoint a "farce" is off-base by far.
Keops : c'est bon ... je ne m'adressais pas à toi ! On ne se comprend pas : fin de l'histoire ( vu que ca dure depuis 2004, il n'y a pas de raisons que ca change ) !
Je parlait de la demo Obsoleet d'UNREAL VOODOO ... un cas tres precis... ca n'avait pas de portée générale : ce débat est clos pour moi.
Je parlait de la demo Obsoleet d'UNREAL VOODOO ... un cas tres precis... ca n'avait pas de portée générale : ce débat est clos pour moi.
Quand je lis ce que tu as ecrit sur les gens qui font des prods sur les plateformes oldskool et sur la scene Atari (tu as littéralement craché sur les 2, il n'y a pas d'autres mots), je ne vois pas ce que Unreal Voodoo vient faire la dedans :)
Apprends a respecter ces gens là, de là ca changera peut-etre et je te comprendrai peut-etre, chose que visiblement je n'arrive pas a faire depuis 2004.
Sorry for non english speakers, I replied to a personal french post ;)
Apprends a respecter ces gens là, de là ca changera peut-etre et je te comprendrai peut-etre, chose que visiblement je n'arrive pas a faire depuis 2004.
Sorry for non english speakers, I replied to a personal french post ;)
Yeah please, keep french wars in french, we have to appear REAL united sinon jfais caca dans vos ordinateurs.
Ze germain demopartyyyyz ist full of droonk pipol, du not ekspekt ordnung.
Well... we didn't get anywhere, as usual.
Time to pouetize the thread now...
Time to pouetize the thread now...
Nytrik: I know your post wasn't aimt at me, I'm not THAT self-centered, although I am quite a lot ;)
I just don't understand why you permanently throw shit at people working on oldskool platforms or people who don't share your vision of what a demo should be (basically a 3D flyby using shaders just for the sake of it).
Being insulting towards the winners like you did with Trace won't bring anything good. If you went to Evoke just to win a compo and come back home bitter and upset about people just because you did not win, it's actually really bad.
Moreover, I'm not sure the winning demo involves less work and has less merit. I did not involve the work YOU usually do (fine modeling and texturing), which doesn't mean it did not involve any other good work.
Same goes for viznut/pwp's work, which does not deserve any less credit than yours, even if you "don't understand" his work.
I just don't understand why you permanently throw shit at people working on oldskool platforms or people who don't share your vision of what a demo should be (basically a 3D flyby using shaders just for the sake of it).
Being insulting towards the winners like you did with Trace won't bring anything good. If you went to Evoke just to win a compo and come back home bitter and upset about people just because you did not win, it's actually really bad.
Moreover, I'm not sure the winning demo involves less work and has less merit. I did not involve the work YOU usually do (fine modeling and texturing), which doesn't mean it did not involve any other good work.
Same goes for viznut/pwp's work, which does not deserve any less credit than yours, even if you "don't understand" his work.
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That sunday night was one wild party way beyond any control and given that I think we managed not that bad.
Agreed. I'd exchange better voting results to a good party (as in the celebration after the compos) any day.
Hey.. I didn't insult anybody? Well, I said that I didn't want to do a stupid crown-pleaser demo. Well, maybe that can be developed to the limit that looks like I insulted the winners... Well, then, maybe I did insult somebody after all. But I don't think so.
As the coder of the demo that created all this stir (this time :), I'd like to say that "8-Bit Wonderland" was at no point intended to be a compowinner. From our point of view, it was clear from the start that we wouldn't make a big impression with all the relatively low-quality graphics and few scenes. What we hoped for is beating the other fun entries, yes. But it never occured to us that we might actually _win_ the compo. Yes, it had its crowd-pleasing moments. And yes, the general topic might be appealing to some sceners. But winning a compo with that? No way. That's what we thought. I can assure you, we were as surprised as you are when we saw how that turned out in the end.
By the way, I would not blame the voting system for this incident. We already managed to do a "mediocre entry, but won anyway" stunt at Breakpoint 2006 - anyone remember "Origami"? I personally prefer the PartyMeister system, but I don't think that it would have prevented the situation we have now, though.
By the way, I would not blame the voting system for this incident. We already managed to do a "mediocre entry, but won anyway" stunt at Breakpoint 2006 - anyone remember "Origami"? I personally prefer the PartyMeister system, but I don't think that it would have prevented the situation we have now, though.
KeyJ: A small number of votes always should be problem in terms of skewing the results. If I read the results file correctly, less than 75 sceners have voted for most compos including the demo compo.
As said earlier, I gave up on voting after waiting for hours for the compos to get unlocked for voting, and after I had to type in the damn votekey for the 6th time because the "remember me" option didn't work. I guess I wasn't alone. Other problems I've seen were many people not even knowing the intranet url (most parties use www.party, evoke used party.evoke.eu, but failed to mention this anywhere), and the "vote" link being totally hidden two clicks away from the start page. (As a bonus, the fact that you could pick up used votekeys lying around everywhere to change other peoples votes wasn't too good either - but I doubt it got abused.)
IMHO for audience-based voting systems to work, it's important to get as many visitors as possible to actually use their right to vote. Evoke needs to improve on this.
As said earlier, I gave up on voting after waiting for hours for the compos to get unlocked for voting, and after I had to type in the damn votekey for the 6th time because the "remember me" option didn't work. I guess I wasn't alone. Other problems I've seen were many people not even knowing the intranet url (most parties use www.party, evoke used party.evoke.eu, but failed to mention this anywhere), and the "vote" link being totally hidden two clicks away from the start page. (As a bonus, the fact that you could pick up used votekeys lying around everywhere to change other peoples votes wasn't too good either - but I doubt it got abused.)
IMHO for audience-based voting systems to work, it's important to get as many visitors as possible to actually use their right to vote. Evoke needs to improve on this.
This thread is more fun than doing the dishes.
This thread is giving me the creeps in every sense. :(((((