pouët.net

trolls of the world begone

category: general [glöplog]
Some of you talk about censorship and your freedom being taken away, but what about the freedom to hold civilised discussions?

A "freedom to troll policy" comes at the expense of other users and takes away their enjoyment. So effectively PS is giving them their liberties back.

You can think of Pouet as a night club. If the doormen let every scumbag and tramp through the door, there will be fights, puking up and general trouble. The club gets a bad reputation and attracts more scum. But if the doormen turn away these dicks and tramps, the club gets a reputation for being high class and attracts more high class clientele.
added on the 2007-11-12 13:44:10 by Flunce Flunce
skrebbel: No, I'm actually perfectly okay with ps banning users. If he banned me and said, "sorry, I just don't want you here", I seriously wouldn't be offended. As long as he's honest about why he's doing it.

I dislike the "Pouet could be so much more if only we got rid of the 'useless' parts" attitude ("useless" being his exact and very questionable choice of words). Kicking me out on a whim because he feels like it, fine, way more his website than mine, so he's entitled, and I'd still give him freibiers at Breakpoint if he looked thirsty. But to try and pretend that the scene is not inherently full of "useless noise", or that it'd be better off cleansed of all the "useless" people, I don't like that. And I don't like the (lack of) reasoning behind it.

Like take Butler's comment there, about the "freedom to hold civilised discussions". As if it's given that trolls and more legit users are mutually exclusive. Where did that come from? If you don't like the random pictures, you can filter them out using Technology!!1, or better yet, just be a bigger man and tolerate them using Emotional Maturity!!1. Try inserting a few lines of rational thought between "I'm annoyed" and "this BBS isn't big enough for the both of us".

Personally I absolutely agree that the people complaining about trolling are louder and more annoying than the actual trolls. By far. But none of it really bothers me. It's just taking up a bit of space on my screen, and it rarely takes a second to identify when a post is serious and when it's not. And I tend to read even the non-serious posts cause they make it all a lot more colourful.

And BTW if I didn't make it clear I'm fine with very strict measures to protect the prods database, banning IPs/IP ranges/countries, filing criminal charges, whatever, it's vandalism and I really can't think of any circumstances that would excuse trying to sabotage a project that so many people have put a lot of effort into. And attention whoring is probably the worst excuse I can think of. So I'm all in favour of ruling the database with an iron fist if that's what it takes.

But remember that the BBS was put up in the first place to host exactly the kind of crap that ps is now getting tired of. And it's immensely popular, which means people like what it IS, not what it could be. I suspect even the worst anti-troll campaigners out there love having something to complain about, and the trolls love being on the receiving end of that.
added on the 2007-11-12 14:15:12 by doomdoom doomdoom
Quote:
But none of it really bothers me. It's just taking up a bit of space on my screen

For you, yes, but for newbies and demoscene propects it's murder. I stopped refering demoscene wannabies to Pouet ages ago, simply because they get scared shitless when they venture onto the BBS.
added on the 2007-11-12 14:46:25 by gloom gloom
gloom:
Quote:
While I do agree that Pouet needs "cleaning up", I find it a bit strange that the criteria for banning is left to be subjective. The correct way to combat trolling is to state a list of rules and then enforce them, not to patrol the BBS every day and go "Aha! You're OUT!" every time someone is out of line.


Subjective is good. Otherwise, you just get another breed of trolls who spend their time dancing around the rules and seeing how annoying they can be without technically breaking any of them. Also known as the "child porn is banned, so I'll flood the boards with lolicon manga instead" effect.
added on the 2007-11-12 14:49:40 by gasman gasman
gasman: Sure, but then you just strike down them. The whole "spirit of the law, not the language"-thing applies to internet life as well. :)

Still -- the most important thing is to remove their garbage from the front page, AND setting up stuff like "New to pouet? Post here" threads etc. in sub-forums, so that newbies don't have to live in fear.
added on the 2007-11-12 14:51:20 by gloom gloom
but hey, maybe steohawk got more of a message and an understanding of other peoples perception about the subject than if he'd just been straight up banned.
hows this new bbs warning?

Quote:
The oldskool pouët BBS is not the demoscene, please visit a demoparty. This is merely a forum for sceners, with obviously too much free time, to release their frustrations and request salted communitary feedback, as opposed to polluting the prod comments section.

New users: please take your vaccines before entering, don't expect instant praise, and try not to feel easily insulted.
Old users: please don't feed the trolls. Reoccuring annoying behavior will result in a heavily subjective ban. Just try not to piss off 90% of our active users with childish and/or idiotic behaviour and you should be safe.

You have been warned.
added on the 2007-11-12 15:25:30 by psenough psenough
gloom: i dont see how subcategorization and diffuse strict rules would stop anyone from trolling new users threads and bumping their bullshit into main focus..
added on the 2007-11-12 15:29:54 by psenough psenough
Funny thing about that thread is that most people who congrat PS for taking action are actual active sceners (those people who actually produce stuff and make the demoscene what it is) whereas most (most != all) people complaining are inactive people (those people who think Pouet is a circus where they can be retarded buffoons craving for attention).

That somehow proves again PS was right :)
added on the 2007-11-12 15:36:02 by keops keops
I'm in favour of the bans, with PS as judge, jury and executioner (so long as he keeps the reasons for banning reasonable, of course!). Having a good discussion derailed by trolling makes pouet a worse place. There should perhaps be a warning first for less serious offenders, and perhaps some way of appealing to somebody other than ps to avoid any claims of bias, but nothing much more IMO.

Having some strict rules is all well and good until the trolls start finding the loopholes and you end up with more and more rules, until nobody knows them all and the whole system is near useless and needs a ton of moderators to keep it going. (Not like that reflects law in the real world of course :)
added on the 2007-11-12 15:44:29 by psonice psonice
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added on the 2007-11-12 15:49:38 by xernobyl xernobyl
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added on the 2007-11-12 15:56:12 by psenough psenough
Quote:
gloom: i dont see how subcategorization and diffuse strict rules would stop anyone from trolling new users threads and bumping their bullshit into main focus..

People can still troll in the "new users / introduction" part of the forums, but it makes it easier to ban/kick them for being assholes. My main point was also that new users can post without it ending up on the front page and ripe for attack. If someone wants to troll with the new users they will have to actively keep themselves updated on what goes on in the different threads, which then becomes too much of a bother for idiots with too much spare time (but not enough spare time to actually make them put in an effort).

At least, that is the logic behind my idea. :)

Oh, and the business in norwegian bars and pubs went _way up_ when the smoking ban was introduced here.
added on the 2007-11-12 16:12:09 by gloom gloom
Yes, good thing they made smoke-free bars legal.
added on the 2007-11-12 16:49:36 by doomdoom doomdoom
Keops hit the nail on the head.
added on the 2007-11-12 17:24:55 by Flunce Flunce
doom, (on your response to my response to your response)

well said :)
added on the 2007-11-12 18:11:05 by skrebbel skrebbel
buttler, that's not fair, it's exactly what i said two pages ago!

:-( :-(
added on the 2007-11-12 18:18:01 by skrebbel skrebbel
Skrebbel: I must have missed it, I apologise. Well said Skrebbel!! :)
added on the 2007-11-12 18:42:06 by Flunce Flunce
Quote:
Oh, and the business in norwegian bars and pubs went _way up_ when the smoking ban was introduced here.

that was all the pro-ban fascists visiting the bars just to gloat and revel in their “achievement” :) kinda like when those serial killers return to a crime scene and unearth their victim’s decomposing body...only to proceed to have sex with it “one last time”

sadists, just like the Pro-Ban Committee here :)
added on the 2007-11-12 18:45:18 by button button
Posting here should already be a bannable offense if've never met a scener in person before ;)
added on the 2007-11-12 19:12:38 by _-_-__ _-_-__
knos: -> if you dont have a picture on slengpung, you're banned? :D
added on the 2007-11-12 19:38:06 by Gargaj Gargaj
or something like that :)
added on the 2007-11-12 19:53:20 by _-_-__ _-_-__
Quote:

knos: -> if you dont have a picture on slengpung, you're banned? :D


lol, there you go keops ;-)
added on the 2007-11-12 21:30:20 by sparcus sparcus
sparcus: I'm sure if we look hard enough we can find a picture of Keops on Slengpung.
This thread must be the greatest flamebait ever on pouet.
added on the 2007-11-12 22:18:37 by Stelthzje Stelthzje

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