trolls of the world begone
category: general [glöplog]
Heh. Well, theres always the ada forums. But then thats specifically for the Amiga scene.
Smash: I agree, but Bitfellas _could_ easily become what you are asking for here. Cut down on the discussion-drowning Bitbot news and make people realise that those born after 1980 are more than welcome, and you're there. And then there is always CSDb. ;)
I'm looking more and more forward to Pouet v2 and Scene.org v2 with every passing day.
What bothers me about the Pouet BBS is simply that, if you take a few steps back and look at it from a distance, it makes the demoscene look like a few struggling Linux fans, bashing eachother over "which is TEH BEST!!!1111" distribution and posting disturbing images.
In short; from an outsiders view, Pouet is percieved to "be" the demoscene, which is simply not true. Now -- people keep saying "but the BBS _is not_ representative of the scene, and everyone knows this". No, the newbies doesn't know this, and herein lies the problem.
If we want to spawn new talent, we have to set the stage for them. If we want to spawn idiots, trolls, spammers and even more idiots, well, then the Pouet BBS does a fine job as it is. :)
What bothers me about the Pouet BBS is simply that, if you take a few steps back and look at it from a distance, it makes the demoscene look like a few struggling Linux fans, bashing eachother over "which is TEH BEST!!!1111" distribution and posting disturbing images.
In short; from an outsiders view, Pouet is percieved to "be" the demoscene, which is simply not true. Now -- people keep saying "but the BBS _is not_ representative of the scene, and everyone knows this". No, the newbies doesn't know this, and herein lies the problem.
If we want to spawn new talent, we have to set the stage for them. If we want to spawn idiots, trolls, spammers and even more idiots, well, then the Pouet BBS does a fine job as it is. :)
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I agree, but Bitfellas _could_ easily become what you are asking for here. Cut down on the discussion-drowning Bitbot news and make people realise that those born after 1980 are more than welcome, and you're there.
And make it possible to browse the forums without registration. Many potential visitors will be turned off by the fact that you need to go through all that hassle with no potential gain. I almost was.
Perhaps we need to add new features to pouet bbs... like, for example, this one: Everybody becomes automaticly moderator of the threads who he/she has started.
That would be good for create both serious and stupids threads. (And everybody, even ps, will eventually be happy).
That would be good for create both serious and stupids threads. (And everybody, even ps, will eventually be happy).
gloom: yep, and thats exactly what it's breeding at the moment.
the amiga, atari and c64 scenes seem quite well off for discussion boards, but i miss an equivalent of ADA for the pc scene - a forum where people currently making pc demos actually talk to each other about making pc demos, which as far as i know doesnt currently exist. the funny non scene related shit has a place, but there's funnier shit on the internet that i'd rather read instead and then come to a scene site afterwards for some demomaking discussion. :)
the amiga, atari and c64 scenes seem quite well off for discussion boards, but i miss an equivalent of ADA for the pc scene - a forum where people currently making pc demos actually talk to each other about making pc demos, which as far as i know doesnt currently exist. the funny non scene related shit has a place, but there's funnier shit on the internet that i'd rather read instead and then come to a scene site afterwards for some demomaking discussion. :)
smash: I'm hoping that some ideas that are being tossed around can put Scene.org back into that place where it should be. As you know, Scene.org hasn't really evolved much these last five years, and I think it's about time it became the central hub for the scene it actually claims to be. Fruitful discussion about this will commence on that beforementioned non-troll infested place. :)
..or not, since BitFellas seem to be down. :/
Bitfellas is up, Gloom.
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No, the newbies doesn't know this, and herein lies the problem.
If actually telling them that Pouet isn't representative of the scene doesn't make them realize that Pouet isn't representative of the scene, then aren't they too thick for the scene anyway?
But, why are the scene.org forums dead while the Pouet forums are not, if the scene.org forums are better than the Pouet forums and everyone is free to choose?
pöuet IS representative of the scene.
I never bothered with Bitfellas for exactly the reason that I need to sign up to even read the forums. Also why I don't have a facebook account. :)
Btw, I got just got carried away and wrote a longer piece on how a person (re-)entering the scene through various parties will not find it to be very welcoming at all (except in that boozed out shallow sense), if you don't have it in you to piss on proper creativity by applauding internal joke demos starring singing moose - not to mention that fucking embarrasing Rob is jarig circle jerk. So why should pouet or any other scene frontend be any different? Then I spotted that this would make me as good a trollbait as any, so I sensored myself for the benefit of outreach.
My serious point here of course being that the scene now - as a community - IS also, if not even mainly, made up of "spawn idiots, trolls, spammers and even more idiots". Sadly. So it will be hard to present it as anything else unless that culture is first changed from within. To me its so very strange to talk about talent recruitment when the migration works the other way around. As of now, and I imagine this has been going on for a number of years, talent is almost forced out, not invited in. The problem is not that people haven't heard about the demoscene. The problem IS the demoscene, and cleaning it up takes more than just enforcing a ban or two on pouet.
My serious point here of course being that the scene now - as a community - IS also, if not even mainly, made up of "spawn idiots, trolls, spammers and even more idiots". Sadly. So it will be hard to present it as anything else unless that culture is first changed from within. To me its so very strange to talk about talent recruitment when the migration works the other way around. As of now, and I imagine this has been going on for a number of years, talent is almost forced out, not invited in. The problem is not that people haven't heard about the demoscene. The problem IS the demoscene, and cleaning it up takes more than just enforcing a ban or two on pouet.
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If actually telling them that Pouet isn't representative of the scene doesn't make them realize that Pouet isn't representative of the scene, then aren't they too thick for the scene anyway?
That is a retarded argument, and you know it.
Quisten: To a very large extent, yes, but they have so little besides their delusions. Empathy is a virtue. ;)
Cyborg: my thought exactly.
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The connection has timed out - The server at www.bitfellas.org is taking too long to respond.
Archmage: must be something on my end then.. :(
archmage: "omg the scene is dead" :)
i do however understand what you mean, but it's always been this way. There ARE some talented folks around, they just dont stick their heads out in the "demoscene internet" community (that often).
i do however understand what you mean, but it's always been this way. There ARE some talented folks around, they just dont stick their heads out in the "demoscene internet" community (that often).
gloom: It's a question, not an argument. Get your punctuation straight. ;) Anyway the message is right there on the front page of the BBS. It could be bigger, maybe in flashing red letters, but it couldn't be clearer. You can't treat every prospective scener like a helpless child.
quisten: If I read smash correctly, he is amongst those who _would like to_ stick their heads out more, but not for crap or "FUNNY PORN!!!111oneoneone" and need a place for this.
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Anyway the message is right there on the front page of the BBS. It could be bigger, maybe in flashing red letters, but it couldn't be clearer. You can't treat every prospective scener like a helpless child.
Again, this is a retarded argument (or more correctly: "way to look at the problem"). :)
Instead of going "oh well, we told them there was a problem here, but they still fled the scene, what a shame", I think the correct approach is to _get rid of the problem_ and start making the scene (or in this case, Pouet) a more inviting place for newbies and hangarounds, in the hope that they will become converts before they are scared shitless. :)
This goes for companies as well -- I never refer potential Scene.org or Breakpoint sponsors to Pouet. Never.
gloom:
yeah, important _would like to_ there, and i really hope to see some real talk, we've had a few interesting discussions here already the last weeks, which show the interest for "serious" demo discussions here.
I do like your idea of splitting the bbs, whereas everyone win. (maybe some of the parts could be moderated?)
yeah, important _would like to_ there, and i really hope to see some real talk, we've had a few interesting discussions here already the last weeks, which show the interest for "serious" demo discussions here.
I do like your idea of splitting the bbs, whereas everyone win. (maybe some of the parts could be moderated?)
Quisten: I'm not exactly saying that the scene is dead, and the talent is evidently there of course. Even in Norway. I'm just saying that you can stay in the market selling a partially faulty product, being the scene as a community, only for so long before you get busted. And, Gloom, I don't mean to trivialize your work either, because I respect it and you a lot and I hope and think you know it. I'm just saying that we have a lot of work to do within the scene before it is sustainable enough to support the sort of expansion you guys want. If that happens through a revival of scene.org, I'll support it 100% and I'll leave this blue screen of death and despair behind forever without ever looking back.
Pouet BBS is not representative of the scene.
Demos, intros, etcetera... are representative of the scene.
That's my opinion.
Nowadays, this BBS is more like a circus show than anything else.
That place is not a serious one. That's good for some things and bad for another things. Maybe we need to split the BBS in two, one serious, -if possible- and another funny. Or maybe not, because pouet is not the scene. True?
I prefer do not talk about the rudeness of some people when they put their comments about the productions in the database. But that's part of the circus and they don't annoying me too much (even Slummy)... in other webs related to the demoscene is not the same.
Demos, intros, etcetera... are representative of the scene.
That's my opinion.
Nowadays, this BBS is more like a circus show than anything else.
That place is not a serious one. That's good for some things and bad for another things. Maybe we need to split the BBS in two, one serious, -if possible- and another funny. Or maybe not, because pouet is not the scene. True?
I prefer do not talk about the rudeness of some people when they put their comments about the productions in the database. But that's part of the circus and they don't annoying me too much (even Slummy)... in other webs related to the demoscene is not the same.