pouët.net

i compare tv stream to pouet.net as if pouet.net was tv stream that would broadcast most awesome program you wanted to watch and suddenly somebody terrorized it that you can't watch it ..

Gargaj: Is there any chance of requesting some features for whatever the next version of pouet is called? If so, I would like to refer to my earlier post. And I would very happily take part into a more serious discussion on a usability / design point of view. Probably contributing some paint overs or mockups.

Smash: I would prefer a soft voting mechanism to distiguish interessted newbies from trolls. E.g. gradually fading out badly rated comments and initializing the rating of new comments with the posters average rating. (I wonder, if we compute the average rating of all replies in the random image thread, the thread would vanish altogether...). Let's imaging the comment list of a production being more or less filtered to the comments of well rated people.

Moderators == People with much time or much devotion
Trolls == People with much time

Sometimes the difference might be hard to tell.

Keops: Wouldn't ignoring be a better defense against trolls than insulting?

it's easy then, before gargaj produces pouet v2.0, just inforce a tag like [SERIOUS] or [TECH], if a troll dare post not relevant content inside such a tagged thread, kill him at sight!

juts remember that anyone is like a Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde, can be both serious and not serious, and serious-only threads tend to die quickly.

devistator: thanx for your useful broad-minded participation, you are totally illustrating my words :-)

It is a rare occasion when you read something on pouet and you find yourself nodding. Go Smash.

pixtur: i really agree with you about having levels for users and putting those levels on the comments. that would really help in 2.0.
but as i think you hinted at, unless we start getting glops for releases, they're pretty meaningless - so the levels cant be just generated on glops.

pixtur: it's gonna be a complete rewrite, so no, not yet... once i reached the state of beta, i'll be considering to implement changes. thing is, there's a LOT to be rewritten, considering that the database itself contains 90% of the data in an unsanitized form... (ever wondered about WHY unicode doesnt work in the oneliner?)

Zest: you are totally illustrating Smash and Dvs'words, which are the very point of this thread and the source of annoying for people who actually produce stuff (that does not include you of course).

As for the participation of Devistator, you won't probably ever reach the 1/100th of his, both on the demoscene side and on the interesting discussion side.

That's probably why people like him will be able to access the restricted forum from pouet v2, unlike unproductive trolls like you.

Smash: I think the idea is to rate posts, and use your average rating from that rather than glops. After all, there's nothing to stop a totally unproductive scener from contributing something worthwhile to a discussion, or to stop some real elite from trolling.

I am having a loveaffair with this thread, I have to say. Go Smash, Pixtur, Keops and Gargaj.

Zest: use your brain, shut up. go to a psychotherapist, just dont think that anyone likes you because of your attention seeking, you would be lying to yourself and thats not healthy.

A realistic solution to this lamer infestation is going to be hard, but either a separate bbs for serious discussion or some sort of labeling of trolls together with moderation of their posts would work.. in reality how this would work for the moderators/admin I dont know, all I know is it would make pouet a valuable place to be again for sceners not just any random loser from the net.

keops: who do you think you are to tell me i'm not productive ? you don't know me. Even the legendary keops ^ equinox doesn't have the right to tell who is worthy or not. And this thread is not about that avatar called Zest, please stick to more important issues, you blatant verbose troll!

Devistator: the more you ask people to shut up, the more they talk. Do you know why ? because it's all about speech freedom.

but that's kindof the point. :) everyone thinks their contributions are worthwhile even if they aren't. its a big difference to be preselected by a moderator that your contributions are objectively worthwhile than to decide so yourself.
it's, as a certain norwegian pointed out to me, very similar to e.g. the user comments on bbc.co.uk about threads on politics. nobody really listens to anyone else, everyone thinks they are right, and everyone thinks everyone should listen to them. it sucks.
im not saying only the elite demomakers should be able to post on any bbs forum on pouet - just that there should be a separate place for people currently making demos to discuss that very subject, without all the associated noise of the rest of pouet. a place where you have to earn the right to be heard, basically. :)
it might lead to a new spirit of sharing information - not e.g. "how i did my last killer effect, copy the code here" but "here's some ideas about making good camera movements or laying out scenes or pacing stuff that i found worked last time - what do you think?". and it might lead to better releases. which, after all, is why we are all here. isnt it?

Zest: who do we think we are ? People who produce demoscene stuff, Smash, Devistaror, Gloom, Archmage, me and the others. People who want to talk about it, share technics, take advices, exchange stuff.

Who are you ? An unproductive troll only able to flood threads with random pictures, the same way people do it on 4chan.

smash talks wisdom :)

also i would like pouet to have a dedicated page in main menu for scene sources as there is already the source field available for each prod.

I would just like to point out that having separate forum for non-trolls might not actually work that well, since it would either 1) require some sort of elite membership access which I think is basically wrong considering there are also newbies in the scene or 2) attract the trolls, because they thrive on the fact that they are despised and hated.

Which brings me to this: Zest, fuck off with your freedom of speech crap. This is an internet forum, not a platform for self-realization or a demonstration on a street. Go troll 4chan or something, I'm sure people will appreciate your existence there.

keops: don't worry, no need to emphasize anymore, names are speaking enough for any demo enthousiast. I'm just telling that your (keops's) elitist approach isn't the right way to make the scene keep growing (not dying) and remain fun.

And i'm dying to reading and learning technical stuff on pouet.

Smash: I agree, I just meant that the idea is to get rid of the people who the vast majority think suck badly and give the people with consistent good posts a bit more credibility, regardless of how productive they really are.

Btw, on the whole moderation / comment rating / filtering system debate:

I've been using another site with a massive bbs for some years, and it has a really good filtering system. You could say filter zest, and just see "Zest - filtered" each time he posts.

The problem is that even with all the trolls in the world filtered, not everybody filters them and many people still reply. You end up still reading a load of useless crap (read through the last page or two here, how many replies to zest are there?)

So, I suggest for any 'serious' BBS that idea is scrapped, and tough moderation would be better.

smash: I perfectly know what you are talking about. Once upon a time I was active at "Digital Art Forum" (forums.sijun.com). Despite of the normal amount of noise, there were also many brilliant people providing help. They structured their forums into "Final", "Work in Progress" and "Random musing". I only posted in "Work in Progress" of course, and got very very good feedback. Sometimes you even got paintovers from gods like Craig Mullins (which is something like Chris Cunningham doing a remix of your demo, just to make a point).
Although it is very unlikeley you will ever see any paintovers at pouet, it would be sooo wonderful. Right now making demos is mostly working in secret to surprise people at parties and then reading the (mostly useless) comments at pouet. But of course this is not the best solution for improving, learning and finally getting better productions. I am not sure if sijun.com can be transfered to coding or the demo scene as a whole, though.

Kick me, I am an everlasting optimist :)

Zest: read carefully those last pages, people who told you either to fuck off or to STFU are people who produced stuff this year (Smash, Preacher, Devistator, me, etc...).

They are the ones who keep the demoscene active. Your spam doesn't, it pisses us off and prevents us from discussing seriously stuff here, don't you get it ?


Psonice: The technical forums would be open to anybody by default, especially newcomers, which is the important thing since they need more help than people like Smash - although Smash could learn a few code tricks ;) ;) /me hugs Smash
However, as soon as some retard like Zest would show up with his flood of random images, he would lose the access to those specific forums. But Well, Gargaj is working on something like that, wait and see :)

Back when the demoscene was young you had to earn respect from others, these days people like you, zest, expect everything on a plate with no effort involved at all. For example, in mail trading days you had to risk losing some of the packages in the post if you were a beginner and they didnt really want to swap with a beginner. Same principle with modem trading too, you had to earn your right to download releases and so the competitiveness of the modem scene was there.. And with programming and doing gfx etc.. there was no internet to get reference material from, it was from reading books about coding, hardware manuals observing the pixelling techniques of others in dpaint, looking at the effects in mods etc..

To gain respect you dont go around asking for sources, you learn yourself, you bite on other works but you shouldnt expect a whole rundown of how to make a demo, if you cant find sources to learn from in the internet age, you are a lost cause. you might as well end it now.

There are plenty of sites for sourcecode.. i really dont think pouet is the place for it.. technical discussions yes, actual assets from demos no!

Every newby has to stand the test. It wasn't easy for us to join the "scene" 10 years ago but as soon as we managed to get some credibility we actually felt like belonging to something wothwhile. Sadly open boards like Pouet don't require any proof of credibility so everybody can join and mess around, making it a pain for those who take it more seriously.

I remember the boards we used to call had usually restricted access or even a hidden entrance to the real board. A similar model could work for Pouet and Scene.org as well. Imagine to leave the public site like it is (speaking of pouet here) and have a serious site that operates according to some code of conduct and is based on respect and credibility. Of course it would have to be invite only.

nuv type system or nup

keops: i dunno how you've come to crystallize all your hatred on my nickname, i still have to understand which awful crimes i've committed except being too talkative... like you. In my own eyes, the 'keops' who is insulting every dude who doesn't follow his orthodoxal views, even if that 'keops' has produced and is still producing lil gems, is the one who does more harm.

Zest : because you are the one who still kept spamming serious threads with your shit recently ? (Paniq's music thread being the last to date).

Make sure you understand what people tried to tell you here beyond the STFUs and FuckOffs. Apart from me, Gloom, Smash, Devistator, Archmage, Psonice and Preacher tried to make a point. Try to understand what they are try to tell you, for a change.