pouët.net

keops: No, my world domination plans are proceeding nicely without the use of OpenID... :-)
Seriously, sceneid.net was just created as a spin-off of Demozoo because it solved a technical problem there (or it will, once I actually convert Demozoo to use OpenID...) and it seemed like it could be useful elsewhere. Whether or not other sites adopt OpenID doesn't really affect the Demozoo project directly. (Of course, when I do start processing data from new sites, it will make my life easier if that data's already in a nice structured format that links up to other things - see Pouet/Nectarine comment above...)

Long term, I would indeed like to make Demozoo a more complete Pouet, and the approach I'm trying to take is to fill in the gaps in the ecosystem and connect things up, rather than trying to take over the job of existing sites. I'd definitely like to co-operate with other sites through strictly above-board methods that don't necessarily require me to become an admin there... (I'm certainly not intending to snoop on the passwords people submit to sceneid.net to get access to their databases, if that's what you're suggesting :-) ). I'm deliberately holding off approaching any sites right now until I've got more of the basic implementation in place, to stop it becoming even more vapourware than it is already.

I did honestly intend to spend some time doing general webmonkey duty on Pouet when I volunteered as an admin, but that... kind of... didn't happen, and I'm hugely grateful to ps for being supportive of the whole Demozoo thing despite me totally failing to live up to those original promises. I suppose it saved him from being bombarded with requests from me for new APIs though, so it probably worked out in the end. (And I did fix up the Debris mass-duplication while everyone else was out boozing at the scene.org awards afterparty - that's got to count for something surely ;-) )

Sorry for agreeing with the trolls, but correlating information that way IS creepy. Demozoo doesn't require a login to access all this information, and I've never consented to the publication of any of it that regards me. Pictures of me on Slengpung? I didn't submit them. I wasn't even aware of many of them before they went online.

It seems that the second you start to partake in the scene even by just showing up at a demo party you're at the mercy of the information harvesters. Who are you, where are you, where have you been, what have you released, what have you said, who are your friends, what girls have you slept with, how do you look, how goth was your hairdo six years ago, and so on and so on and so on. I have never opted into this grand public database you're constructing, and it doesn't seem like there's any way of opting out.

In fact, I just checked. Demozoo directly links photos of me with productions I've released. I have never requested that kind of totally public internet exposure, I've never consented to it and, to be perfectly honest, I dislike it. So, call this an emotional outburst if you will, but what you're doing is fucking not cool.

ok, I'll accept there may be a problem with Slengpung links. For all the joy it brings to the world, let's face it, Slengpung is a mass invasion-of-privacy fuckfest, database or no database - and I'm willing to believe that having those photos in searchable-but-not-well-linked form is juuust on the boundary of what people are willing to tolerate.

Having the Slengpung IDs around is useful data, because Slengpung has probably the most comprehensive list of scener->group affiliations available anywhere, but yeah, the links to the actual photos have limited usefulness, and aren't really core scene data. I wouldn't consider it a great loss if we were to drop those. Any other opinions?

btw:

Yes, and...? Bah, it's one of those "conclusion so obvious I won't bother to mention it, except it actually isn't obvious at all" things again. If you do have an actual security hole in mind, and it stands up to a reading of kb's "let's break down the protocol" explanation, then I reckon the security experts who've spent two and a half years developing it would like to hear from you.

Gasman : I'm with Doom and Gargaj on that one, I still don't get the benefits for us and I find all this kind of creepy (especially the slengpung direct links). All this almost makes me think of a big demoscene Who's who for voyeurs.

I would have prefered bigtime that you helped Gargaj enhance Pouet's code and features when you became an admin instead of grabbing its database to go and make Demozoo with all those links and affiliations, but that's just my opinion ;)

gasman: don't get me wrong, nothing personal at all, just sharing my point of view about the project itself, since you wanted some feedback :)

The protocol is probably great; if people are sober, skilled and isn't too lazy. Then again, this isn't just an openid problem, same problem with sceneid today.

Slengpung links removed from demozoo now (unless you're logged in as a gloperator).

sigh

gasman, most people aren't paranoid enough that they care about slengpung links. how about just hiding the links for people who explicitly ask for them to be removed?

Keep It Simple...

From the Slengpung FAQ:



The keyword there is "might". I really lack the words to express my disgust with that attitude, but it has nothing to do with paranoia. The part of their disclaimer they're presumably referring to deals with copyright. Which then appears to be the only reason they'll accept. I find that ironic, considering how very easy it'd be to question the legality of the way Slengpung compiles and publicises pictures and information.

I know the concept of "privacy" is as lost on the British as "demoscene" is on Arcane and Sixpack, but then at least recognise that those two shit-eating parasites specifically refuse to respect the wishes of the people they feature on their website. Is that really something you want associated with a serious scene-oriented site like what Demozoo (I guess) tries to be?

IANAL, and I do agree that privacy issues should be taken more seriously by people who put up an online database, but I'd also like to note that:
- Demoparties are public events where you can expect to be photographed.
- Just like with movie and pop stars there may be a public interest that is more important than your personal privacy. Once you start releasing demos to an audience you have chosen to be in the spotlight and that may come with a price.

note nr 2 kinda makes me wanna get my silver gloves out the cupboard!

Hey, don't shoot the messenger, I didn't use the word "may" without a reason. All I'm saying is that the statement that questions the legality of Slengpung is not as simple as it may seem at first glance :-)

sparcus: So many things wrong with those two statements I don't know where to start.

Gargaj, so?

what about people's image right ?

At the very least a site like Slengpung could delete a person from the database upon simple request, but keep the pictures.

it all matters if you guys see a demoparty as a public place or not..

you can discuss that while i go get drunk..

Leia: Remember to get some good pictures. I'll help you identify the people in them. Then, once everyone's sober and thinking "I hope I didn't do anything embarrassing last night", we'll put them online for all the world to see.

It'll be fun.

it's not the fact that people may be taking photos of me in public that bothers me. it's what they intend to do with my image and any data based on me that is the concern when it comes to "privacy". i don't believe slengpung are compiling facial pattern scan databases and linking them to intricate behavioral trend analysis software. they do not plan to derive any conclusions from images of sceners, they are not planning to take action based on what sceners do or what sceners look like. they are photos of random people at a public event and i think the only intention is to celebrate demo parties? maybe i'm wrong.

cameras with x-ray technology (soon to replace the old cameras), linked to "behavioral pattern detection" software on every street corner in London/England is a different matter.

Battle Droid, the Slengpung FAQ you referred to was in fact seriously out of date. Thanks for bringing this up, the updated version is now online.

The location of the shoot means jack WRT the right to one's image.

With respect to the violation of privacy, their own intentions are irrelevant if they make the information available to anyone.