pouët.net

IQ and shit.

category: general [glöplog]
many good things have been discovered by serendipity facts :
champagne, roquefort, penicilline, etc.
Even errors bring an extra knowledge
added on the 2008-11-11 13:42:34 by oiD oiD
Mmm.. I didn't knew about champagne and roquefort. What's the story?
added on the 2008-11-11 13:57:50 by Optimus Optimus
this is a thread about pouet logoes ?
added on the 2008-11-11 14:11:13 by 24 24
roquefort wasn't discovered by serendipity facts, it was found in a cave. One day the roquefort will run out :(
added on the 2008-11-11 14:16:04 by psonice psonice
the roqueforts have escaped.
added on the 2008-11-11 14:20:01 by Optimus Optimus
but not raclette
added on the 2008-11-11 14:39:28 by oiD oiD
I thread smells more like shit than like IQ. jsyk.
added on the 2008-11-11 14:42:32 by raer raer
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Correct, e.g. math which is based on axioms, aka assumptions.


Wat?
added on the 2008-11-11 15:27:20 by doomdoom doomdoom
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Regardless, people who consider intelligence to be an objective absolute make value calls when they estimate a person's IQ score, otherwise there would be no point in doing so.


That would would make anyone who studies humans a nazi. Why would you study differences in height if not to produce a race of very tall people? Why study distribution of hair colour if not to produce more blondes? Etc.

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Low IQ score = bad, high score = good,


Or the other way around. It seems you're the one making that value call, then failing to imagine that others might be more objective than you.

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and to the people undertaking the most research in the area of intelligence (ie: psychologists and eugenicists, aka genetic engineers today), any characteristic they consider bad is a problem which at some point will require a solution.


Genetic engineers are not eugenicists. You could call genetic engineering a slippery slope, but that's a rhetorical point that ignores the huge potential in genetics for improvements to human quality of life.

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No, discussing it doesn't make you and I eugenicist, but there are eugenicists out there seriousely discussing this also.


And there are sick fucks who would get a kick out of a description of children's genitals, yet you can still have an objective discussion about the genitals of children in, say, a medical context. You can't transpose the mentalities of different people that way. There might be a Mensa Eugenics Division who would breed humans with IQ as the sole selection criterion, but so what?

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Unlike us, they are discussing it with real purpose in mind. To these people, ther is "right" and "wrong" intelligence, btw.


And "these people" are who, exactly? Psychiatrists, doctors, medical researchers, people working in AI, kindergarten teachers, the secret Nazi underground, the Breakpoint organisers? The Ninja Turtles? I don't get it.

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Because the purpose of IQ evaluation is not so that we can passively sit here on Pouet debating its merits. It is designed to answer a question, "how intelligent is this person or group of people?", or more accurately "what type of intelligence do they have?".


Yes. And there are "good" and "bad" reasons for wanting to know that. One good reason could be self-improvement. I might like to get an objective assessment of how bright I am so that I can improve in the areas I feel need improvement. It's like stepping on a scale to see how much you weigh - not a perfect measure of body fat (and it's very easy to cheat), but none the less your weight IS related to your general fitness and health. You don't say "weighing in is bullshit, there's so much more to health than just body mass, so I'll conclude that there's no objective truth to fitness and just eat another pint of ice cream anyway". And you certainly wouldn't say that the existence of scales is an invitation to sterilise fat people.

A scale is a very useful tool, and the concept of body mass is a useful concept. The problem is only when people think there's a direct link between body weight and fitness and health, or that science is assuming there is such a link.

Another good reason for studying human intelligence is AI research. But then that's dangerous too because Skynet will kill us all, right?

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So once geneticists figure out how to eradicate "bad intelligence", do you honestly think they will not be using IQ scores (or similar) to determine value?


Conjuring up a totalitarian nightmare scenario for the future is never pleasant, no. But ignoring reality won't make for a brighter, happier future anyway. Either IQ tests are bullshit, or they're a meaningful measure of something intelligence-related. If it's the latter, broadly recognising them as such is essential if we want to AVOID a world ruled by a small elite.

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I don’t think they’ll be able to resist, not when I read how "close they are to discovering the gene that causes criminality and obesity"


You can't know if you're close to discovering something. That in itself is nonsense, and you should seriously question the source of that information.

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and how wonderful it will be to finally get rid of these "genetic problems". They're already telling us that the plan is to get rid of what they decide are problem characteristics in humanity.


Again, who are "they"? Be careful with the witch hunt rhetoric if you want to make a fair point.

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Anyway, I just think variation in thought processes is humanity's greatest survival strength and to even begin evaluating people's intellect in terms of myopic IQ scores is very dangerous. Particularly when we are getting ever closer to being able to alter those genes in line with what our current ignorance and lack of wisdom tells us is "superior".


And who said intelligence was genetic? Bear in mind, we're genetically identical to stone age humans, just about, yet on the IQ scale or probably on any conceivable scale, we're all massively more intelligent.
added on the 2008-11-11 15:31:46 by doomdoom doomdoom
BASS.
added on the 2008-11-11 15:43:10 by xeron xeron
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Bear in mind, we're genetically identical to stone age humans, just about, yet on the IQ scale or probably on any conceivable scale, we're all massively more intelligent.


YES, being genetical identical has made us ~30 (or something like that. 30 cm more or less) centimeters taller too!
added on the 2008-11-11 17:27:31 by tzaeru tzaeru
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added on the 2008-11-11 17:43:26 by ham ham
it's a proven fact that eating a lot of roquefort can make you up to 30cm taller too, so we can give roquefort the credit for that.

Anyway, where are the caveman IQ scores? I bet they're actually really high, seeing that they lived in caves.. coincidentally where roquefort comes from!
added on the 2008-11-11 17:44:09 by psonice psonice
BAD CHOICE.

SINCE actual theorists have concluded that human intelligence started gaining more foot in daily life by time when hummies moved near to seas and begun eating fishies that have like protein and shit..

yyyep. cave men just munched their roots and barks.
added on the 2008-11-11 17:47:25 by tzaeru tzaeru
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added on the 2008-11-11 17:47:33 by ham ham
what's an actual theorist?
added on the 2008-11-11 17:53:36 by Sverker Sverker
an actual theorist is a member of the cult of science and education (as understood very differently from the scientific Methodology).























































added on the 2008-11-11 18:00:59 by NoahR NoahR
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what's an actual theorist?


I have no idea!

Only thing I know is that I was refering to someone a little more qualified than the ö-class pouët-scientists and philosophists. :-D
added on the 2008-11-11 19:06:52 by tzaeru tzaeru
its funny

if somebody started throwing a hissy fit on here because he wasn't privy to some basic fruit seller knowledge that people with an education in fruit selling have (and the non-fruit selling population don't have), you'd think he was a bit paranoid

after all, there are probably some basic concepts of fruit selling that are within everyone's grasp, but they probably need just the tiniest bit of fruit selling education and BAM

so, you'd probably think someone was a bit weird if they started foul mouthing fruit sellers simply because they know a bit more about selling fruit
added on the 2008-11-11 21:59:02 by forestcre forestcre
where fruit selling = science
added on the 2008-11-11 21:59:41 by forestcre forestcre
OHMYGOD it's a lame and boring view to word to see it as a static, unchanging heap of similarity OVER AND OVER AGAIN. It's like demos - same bullshit every time.

I do bet people who make the majority of demos are quite similar intelligence - and similar in every other way, just like their demoz.

PROVOCATIVE POST ROCKS
added on the 2008-11-11 22:35:39 by tzaeru tzaeru
YOU SUCK ANYWAY
added on the 2008-11-11 23:09:30 by skan skan
LESS THAN THEE
added on the 2008-11-11 23:57:56 by tzaeru tzaeru
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That caveman was intelligent. It's just that there was no civilization, language, education, etc back then.

But wait! This is just a movie not a fact :P
added on the 2008-11-12 08:59:32 by Optimus Optimus
Uhm, the URL blows :/
added on the 2008-11-12 09:00:18 by Optimus Optimus

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