pouët.net

rez: Impressive and inspirational. :)

what rasmus said.

but if you (or anyone reading this thread due to just beginning to do demos) really want to do sth smaller in filesize (which absolutely does NOT mean it is lesser work in the end!) i can also pinpoint you to iqs frameworks for 64k/4k someone mentioned before. learning c++ is crucial to do that though ;)

for music you can use 4klang for 4k or v2 for 64k. both come with samplecode on how to implement it in your prod (c++) and a .dll ready to use as a VSTi in your favourite music-programm, i tend to say Renoise is the best solution for music(for free, google it).

getting your prod small is done with crinkler for 4k or kkrunchy for 64k. both come with helpfiles telling you how to use it.


if you just wanna do a demo/64kb get werkkzeug, which is a bit tricky to understand in the beginning but yields results very fast and comes with an easy "makeDemo"-option ;) there are pages/forums with additional help in getting somewhere with werkkzeug. just google it. for music you can use "V2" again (see above, for 64k-soundtracks) or just any mp3/ogg you want (for demos). i dont know if its possible to use modules tho.

you see, demosceners did most of the work for you already :)

so happy demoscening and i wish you to get somewhere fast, no matter what you do. altho i suggest trying a simple demo first (own code in c++ or whatever language or just even sth done in werkkzeug is fine for a first-prod!)

ah, yes...using "fmod" lets you use modules btw. i think "BASS" can do that aswell for you. just google these if you need them for selfcoded demos and want to use .mod .xm etc.

For cross platform dev i suggest to take at sdl gl

Thanks everybody for the help, i've got awesome ideas and i think i know how to make everyone in the opengl :D

Also i am using Visual C++ 2010 ;D

Aww, wish I had awesome ideas too :) Good luck doing stuffs.

hey, this reminds me: i am a beginner aswell:
some1 any suggestions on how to best include kkrunchy in VisualStudios Release-Build? i dont know anything about makefiles, has it do with that? or just some PostBuild.bat as known from C# ?
( ia m a bit ashamed now that i didnt even have a fast a look into my Solution-Settings, but i learned sth in my first year as a freelancer: time is limited! so sorry about that, but i guess you other old farts have more experience with such stuff anyway ;) just lets hope this thread stays untrolled! )

@BlackSheep8Bit:
May the SceneForce be with you!

hope you dont find too many stumbling blocks on your way to your first demo, but be sure there will be some.

maybe you google a bit about IRC and how to access it, there are several channels to meet people you can ask for help if you ever stumble upon one ;)
#coders is one of them afaik, never tried it myself tho. rest is googling again, as all of learning is by today :)
(IRC is normally faster than any Forum, but Forums can help you getting the basics for sure, so this should be your first step, altho i dont think there is too much of demo-coding-forums out there. so not much to read. varying the google-search to "classic demo effect" or sth alike may yield even more help.)

what i try to say is:
dont ask for every problem but first try to help yourself googling it. this is the magic behind demos: understanding what you are doing and why you are doing it this way! this is also the fun about coding btw. ;) so learning helps.
But if you really have stumbled upon sth you cant help yourself with just ask here, better via IRC on some channel with other coders, i think every scener or even other coder will help you as much as possible then.

It's interesting to see what the demoscene has come to.

BlackSheep: do NOT learn openGL. There is Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Blackbook available for FREE on the net, that'll teach you all about cubes. It is written for old DOS machines, so you'll have to do some work in translating that into modern hardware, if that's what you're using. But - the main point is, do it without an API, ignore all the advice you got over here (before mine).

The easiest thing would be to do stuff for the browser in Javascript, like Gasman does, though I may be saying because I don't know/like C++.

If you choose NOT to, could I somehow entice you away from the Windoze world and into Linux? :) I have NOT done it myself, as I ultimately came to the conclusion that browserdemos would be the best bet, as I can then kill 2 birds with one stone - this knowledge can be used in the Real World to make me some money!


It may seem a little hypocritical, considering I had posted about paper books for WebGL right here on this forum, but I've been holding off learning about it for the past 2 years or so, because I want to do Gasman-like stuff, and I haven't broken Yet!!! I guess I eventually will, just that day hasn't come Yet.

while normally i would agree...

WHAAAAAAAAAAAT?!

Windows c++ and opengl has by far the easiest learning curve. Learning the fundamentals is important but not crucial.

Js and webgl is still too experimental for new coders (imho)

Because mode 13h is cool!

I can actually relate and also recommend that; my mad 3D coding skillz went up about a lot when I wrote a 3D engine on CoolBasic. It has no hardware acceleration and nothing to help with 3D so its just math and a couple of horizontal lines.

BlackSheep8Bit: you should throughly ignore the rubbish that "bitnaughty" is spewing above.

i sure hope not. coders want compatibility, ease and AN AUDIENCE TO SEE THEIR WORK. linux offers neither. and no, webgl is currently worse than opengl used to be around 2002.

"worse" meaning......?

I must say, I did this last summer before function and it did work.

But I did start with mode 13h as far as graphics coding is concerned.

No wait, I started with some scripting language that could load sprites.

Just choose something and stick with it until you get something awesome out of it. The worst thing you can do it to give up at the beginning.

Cocoon: There is post build step in properties under project menu, build events. You'll get output in the VS console and such. Can also do some dos like scripting there too. Renaming, copying, attaching date or whatever should be possible.
Example:
tools\kkrunchy_023a4_asm07.exe --refsize 64 --out $(TargetDir)CoolIntro.exe $(TargetPath)
copy $(TargetDir)CoolIntro.exe D:\Download\

some of what bitnaughty said made even sense to me: as i stopped demoscening in 1997 on amiga and came back in 2008 via DemoBoxGiveAway. ;) but what he tried to say just went under: if you have experience already (which is possible ofcoz if the threadstarter is 15 years at age already!) try this way!

the rest of his post felt like "lets make fun out of that dude!" tho.

Thanx, Yomat!

didnt try yet, but most-likely will get used as is once theres free-time ;) (cause what you rip is what you saw!)

but how the hell do you still receive me as "Cocoon" while i change my name on a daily basis, being "hArDy|tRSi" for about 3 years by now ? (wait, something is wrong in that question!)

@BlackSheep8Bit: Forget what everyone said I have the truth! Not. Just be aware that this board (as well as the rest of scene) is made of many peoples all with their own opinion, and that you'll have to filter the sometimes contradictory answers.

It's nice to see so many peoples giving so many tips. So I'll add mine :)
I'd say, stick with what you're comfortable with. Even if it's a dead or unleet platform (DOS, AppleII, SNES, Flash, Python, WebGL). The important thing is the end-result, and the end-result will be better if you're comfortable with what you use. (and if an audience if important for you, just youtube the demo ;) )

So if today you've got some spinning cubes, that's awesome! Go from there and turn them into something interesting. Add music and sync it up, add better-looking colors, etc.

If at some point you get stuck with your tools and can't do more, then go back and choose another one. It's not a waste of time. The new one will probably be quite easy to learn, since you learned something similar before, and you'll have a better overall understanding.

My main problem is the sync, how?

also, you should come to revision :-)

BlackSheep8Bit: Usually the musicplayer you use can return where it is in the song. If it can't, then you just use an OS timer.

I used a lot minifmod, you can get the current pattern/line of played music, so it's easy to fire up effect on that events :)

for a fast smally: I'd go GL 2.0 and a lil GLSL smallyfier and a good C synth or an ogg demo tune on a simple playbacker.

the "worst case" is to have a small uncompressed 1st demo that works everywhere. ;)

Rez: Yeah, minifmos it's prety good, but unfortunately i can't find anywhere some kind of tutorial or reference manual about it, only about the Fmod one :/