pouët.net

numtek:
You make it sounds like analogue bought a domain. The fact is that all functionality we have today is really him+ps doings. And pouet was well functioning even before ps came around. And as proven by the open sourced code Gargaj has not been trustfull with his agenda on pouet.net. He has neglected the serious security holes as an administrator/bugfixer and instead he pushed for a new platform that he didnt want to opensource.

scamp: 1 year ago I asked Garg about OSS, who told me to wait for 2.0, some days ago I asked again and his answer this time was that 2.0 was his code and he had no plan to open it -> That sped up the opening of 0.9. And again, not showing up on the BBS when you push fixes or fix data (Not everything is in the thread, a lot is sent webmaster@pouet.net) does not mean you do nothing, it just mean you don't see it.

gasman: That's exactly what he's doing (2.0) and I never ever interfered with ps/gargaj changes, and don't plan to.

iq: Given the tone of this thread (yours included), and the fact that the creds have been shared with some of them, yes, I've been scared for pouet. And not by Gargaj like I said 3 times already. He has the accesses.

Again, what Gargaj can't do now that he was able to do before ?

Fuck off newfag, srsly.

Well it's all hyperbole. This isn't a 1-bit world... The "destruction" could be something as simple as scene.org running out of money and the site getting littered with ads or getting a lot of downtime but admins, whoever they may be by then, being unwilling to move it elsewhere. Or whatever. And even if nothing ever happens - so what, then it's "just in case" like backups or whatever.

And can you even call it paranoia when all the assholes and negativity have already ran off a lot of active (former) members. Pouet has already been destroyed. I bet a lot of people would prefer to visit a "pouet" without the comments/bbs/oneliner, just the prods. Or one with only thumb ups shown...

Hi, I'm Shifter and I used to use Pouet in the early days. Back when you actually did things. We met at Buenzli 2002, I think? I remember that people shot the photo that ended up being your Slengpung card.

Here's a thing: you're being an paranoid asshole.

I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea that, since you're French, semantics in English are a weird uncle to you. But please stop arguing like everything is about open source and controlling the source and that everything is a goddamn conspiracy (ha! I did the joke -yay me!)

To insinuate that people might wipe the database you had so little to do with in all those years of absence is truly fucking offensive, considering scene.org did you the favor of taking over hosting when it was required.

I'm not sure what they put in the water in NYC, but rest assured that you're acting like a meth addict. Get a grip, please?

Hah, I almost fed the trolls. Luckily I decided otherwise. Anyway. Off to Outline. After all what is this site without parties and actual releases, no?
Websites come and go, they allways have. I don't make demos so other people can rate them.

maali: are you coming to assembly this year? i need to have a word with you.

*random post*

can i report a bug? i sometimes need some time to think and write a comment and i get kicked out. that login thing. that's weird i can't get the text back when i fail post.

nonetheless. rewrite.

the site is still running. why argue? i'd feel good if you manage to get over that "i wrote that" thing and wanna own it and just make the site code cool. as efficient as possible. yo. there were alotta pros here saying that the old code is shit to work with so... for your own sake make it better, easier to maintain. however.

excuse me for a half drunk post.

guys, if you tolerate what happened, you will end up in russia. that's exactly what happened to us here.

yumeji: github as an issues tab, anyone can post there.

w23: you got open sourced? one would think that in soviet russia source opens you.

I'm very glad to hear that - thanks.

(And I really hope Gargaj is willing to take you at your word on that. After everything else that's gone on in this thread I won't hold my breath, but... well, a guy can hope)

Aaaaannnnnd ps wins the thread.

Does that mean he gets to take it home with him? What a horrible prize...

all the fear and loathing of pouet condensed into one single thread! and now it's all mine!

Could be worse - could be b& or have his -rw access revoked or be accused of plotting to DELETE THE EVERYTHING!.
Right?
I'm hoping that analogue and garg are making sweet, sweet make up love whilst all the mods and gloperators stand by the bedside cheering. That would be nice.

analogue: if you're scared for the continued existence of pouet, wouldn't the next move after opening the source be to open the data as well? Because right now, people are scared for pouet since you seem very reluctant and evasive to touch that topic.

So, to us, it seems like you are still quite scared right now. Because with the database, we could create a copy of all of that within minutes and you'd be left with nothing. And, apparently, that's the exact opposite of what you want.

You claim to care about pouet. Fine. Then put your money where your mouth is and do what's right. Let the community decide what to do next. The community is what makes pouet and it should always come first.

Again D.Fox - I'm guessing that the sql db has a lot of info stored in it that most "users" wouldn't want broadcast to the world - particularly in plain text.

You may want to pause for a moment and think about what info you have stored in your profile.

Too many personal info, like nicknames linked to actions, comments, votes, IPs and useless stuff like FK, timestamps, ... for a dump.
I already said that I'd be open to do it, but after anonymizing the data and dumping it in a usable format, like CSV, and an API.

Ask Gargaj if you want more info, as nobody will take seriously what I'm writing anyway.

D.Fox is partially spot-on... I do not care about pouet's code. Anyone with the motivation (that's not me) and some php/mysql knowledge could build a pouet-frontend-like (I don't really know how's the backend, if there's any at all) site from scratch in a month (disclaimer: that doesn't necessarily mean good code or a good project, just enough code to display the data: we have all seen pouet's code is not precisely state of the art).

I think the important stuff here is the data, and apart from the exclusive tidbits the devs have given to whoever needed it (far from being a complete query api), there's none of that data in the open right now... in a usable manner anyway.

I guess priority #1 right now should be, both safekeeping that data, and normalize/migrate it to something usable (preferably open, but if there's trust in the back -which, from this thread, there doesn't seem to be any right now- I wouldn't care about that), then make an API... then make a new pouet, or fix the existing one, this being the last priority (incidentally, this seems to have taken the first slot right now, and it's what's being mostly discussed around here).

...hm, I wonder how THAT happened.

Re opening the data:

At some point in the future (probably only after Demozoo has opened up its codebase/database itself), I will want to import Pouet data into Demozoo. (Not all of it, because I think our data is pretty damn good already, but for sure there are plenty of prods that only exist on Pouet.)

Doing this over an API is not going to work, because I need to perform deep queries to match records up correctly, such as: "Pouet's record for the group 'Abyss' matches the Demozoo one if it matches by name, and at least one of its productions matches by title." The most effective way to do this is to have a local copy of the complete Pouet db - and a direct .sql dump is the simplest way for me to get that. If I don't get one, I'll probably end up building one myself the long way, out of whatever APIs and CSV dumps I have access to. If you're serious about openness then surely you'll be happy to save me that extra work, and provide the data in the most convenient format for me?



That isn't personal info. Personal info is SOME of the columns in the users table (email, possibly sceneid username) and IP addresses. Other non-public information is in non-essential tables like scene.org award nominations. It is not a massive engineering task to strip this out.


Please don't make assumptions about what is and isn't useful to other developers. Timestamps in particular are incredibly useful for synchronising between multiple data sources.

ringofire: have a look here and inform yourself about the data that's saved for each user before assuming that pouet collects insane amounts of user data.

analogue: With what you propose, pouet will still not be "open". It'll be tied to a specific server accessed by specific people. People who lost the trust of the community over the last 48 hours.

I still think that your argument is invalid but even if people disagree with me, there are ways around the privacy issue:

The community could choose people whom they trust with all the data.

I mean, it already happened the day they created an account. They entered an (in all fairness, unwritten) agreement and trusted pouet with their data. And the same thing happens on other demoscene-specific platforms every day.

I mean what do you expect people to do with the sql dump anyway? Sell it? Post a list of known nicknames and their sceneID all over the net?

Apart from a couple of columns, there is no information in that db that can't be accessed publicly.

As for cleaning up the data:

should do the trick.

Ok, this is to all the peeps calling for a db dump as part of the *new* GNU/GPL pouet.
Providing the source to the website shouldn't be that much of a hassle - all the php or cgi and css should be builtin. And garg letting loose with 2.0 covers that.

The db contains all of the info about prods, the oneliner, bbs and user info.
Now anyone stupid enough to store pouet's usernames and passwds on the same server (let alone same disk/partition) doesn't deserve to be called an admin.
So why do we need an db dump? Sure all of the prods' info is there but so is my yahoo handle for example.
I'm no db maven but can the "current admins" guarantee that both sets of information won't be released. If not then as far as I can tell both pouet.net and scene.org would not be keeping their side of the privacy agreement I clicked when I signed up.

I typed ^ this before your response analogue. How are you going to "anonymise" the data? Sounds like a lot of hard yakka (hand editing). Cause until you can promise me none of my or any other users data is removed then as a user of pouet I strongly disagree with dumping the sql db.

AFAIK DFox - many users have icq, websites and email addys tied into their account info. Again all in plain text. Any guarantee that this type of info will be kept out of the public eye?
I have seen 1 pouet user in the past broadcast anothers IP address so I don't think I'm just being a panic merchant here.
*Garg dealt with that situation quite well at the time.*

*sigh*