Audio/music stuff
category: music [glöplog]
...OK, so I've never been into audio programming or sound or anything like that, but..... I *did* listen to electronic music quite a bit when growing up, and I had a niggling curiosity in the back of my mind back then as to how it was all done.... those posts about musicians' workplaces reminded me of those days.... I just have a couple of beginner questions: you know Mel and Kim, Respectable? That "tay-tay-tay-tay" thing..... - what the fuck is that?? Is it the same as what they show in Ferris Bueller, for those who've seen the movie, when he presses the keyboard for a cough sound, and then a higher key for a higher cough sound? Back then, I always thought it would be DAMN cool to have a keyboard that did that,...but alas they were fucking expensive..... can that kind of thing be done with a home PC today??? What kind of software is needed? And more importantly, what's the software doing?? (just like, a beginner's simplified overview, for someone who knows nothing about sound programming....)
How is something like Snap's The Power done, (or C&C Music Factory) where it's a guitar, but it's like, staccato? They're samples, right? So - does a guitarist play, and they record it into the computer and use audio editors or something? Or somehow get those samples onto a keyboard, like above, and play it? It sounds like something a tracker program could be used for, doesn't it....? :)
If I wanna try picking up something like Beats International's "Won't talk about it" (oh that bassline :) ) - can I just connect a keyboard to my PC and do stuff? What kind of keyboards are needed exactly, and are they very expensive? Doesn't the keyboard have to be Dumb, ie. it just sends the keystroke to the computer, which then does everything....? In that case, what is MIDI, and is it what's to be used here....?
Lots of questions, who better than all you music guys over here to answer.... :)
How is something like Snap's The Power done, (or C&C Music Factory) where it's a guitar, but it's like, staccato? They're samples, right? So - does a guitarist play, and they record it into the computer and use audio editors or something? Or somehow get those samples onto a keyboard, like above, and play it? It sounds like something a tracker program could be used for, doesn't it....? :)
If I wanna try picking up something like Beats International's "Won't talk about it" (oh that bassline :) ) - can I just connect a keyboard to my PC and do stuff? What kind of keyboards are needed exactly, and are they very expensive? Doesn't the keyboard have to be Dumb, ie. it just sends the keystroke to the computer, which then does everything....? In that case, what is MIDI, and is it what's to be used here....?
Lots of questions, who better than all you music guys over here to answer.... :)
Lol
what okkie said!
hey Respectable was a nice song :) thanks for memories..
and btw. if wanna do that Ferris Bueller stuff all ya need is some kinda tracker software (like milkytracker)...
from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_tracker
Terminology:
- A sample is a small digital sound file of an instrument, voice, or other sound effect. Most trackers allow a part of the sample to be looped, simulating a sustain of a note.
- A note designates the frequency at which the sample is played back. By increasing or decreasing the playback speed of a digital sample, the pitch is raised or lowered, simulating instrumental notes (e.g. C, C#, D, etc.).
and btw. if wanna do that Ferris Bueller stuff all ya need is some kinda tracker software (like milkytracker)...
from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_tracker
Terminology:
- A sample is a small digital sound file of an instrument, voice, or other sound effect. Most trackers allow a part of the sample to be looped, simulating a sustain of a note.
- A note designates the frequency at which the sample is played back. By increasing or decreasing the playback speed of a digital sample, the pitch is raised or lowered, simulating instrumental notes (e.g. C, C#, D, etc.).
Quote:
when he presses the keyboard for a cough sound, and then a higher key for a higher cough sound? Back then, I always thought it would be DAMN cool to have a keyboard that did that,...but alas they were fucking expensive..... can that kind of thing be done with a home PC today???
It could be done one home computers back then, at least on the Amiga. PC wasn't very multimedia oriented at the time, but by the early 90s they could do it as well.
rage: thanks. cool, yeah I had figured out about sampling, but didn't know about that sustain stuff. this "part of the sample that can be looped" - how do you select which part? does it show a sound wave on the screen or something, like Audacity? and you select it with the mouse? or - can the software do "sustain" by itself, like if I click a button or something, ie. someone did an algorithm to........do it?? :)
Does sampling, today, need a *gadget called a sampler*, or can all that be done on a home PC? Any special sound cards needed, or will mine do?
And - most important question: how is the SONG done?? Like, when Mel and Kim are singing, does someone sit in the studio and press the "play" button on the computer/sampler everytime the song gets to that part??? Sounds pretty maddening.....Then what happens when they perform the song live??
Does sampling, today, need a *gadget called a sampler*, or can all that be done on a home PC? Any special sound cards needed, or will mine do?
And - most important question: how is the SONG done?? Like, when Mel and Kim are singing, does someone sit in the studio and press the "play" button on the computer/sampler everytime the song gets to that part??? Sounds pretty maddening.....Then what happens when they perform the song live??
btw, on a jokey note - what's the other guy in Pet Shop Boys actually doing???!!! :) maybe I won't understand it all, but....THIRTY years later, let's at least TRY to have the mystery unravelled....? :)
Which decade are you from, exactly?
Quote:
how do you select which part? does it show a sound wave on the screen or something, like Audacity? and you select it with the mouse?
yes there's usually a little sample editor, like audacity, and you can select loop points.. that's the fun stuff.. trying to make the sample sound good.
No special sound cards needed, only if you want higher quality.
How is the song, Respectable, done? Producers are Stock Aitken Waterman
Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Aitken_Waterman
The assembly line:
- Their usual method for creating the music was to first write the songs, although many of their early acts (such as Hazell Dean, Dead or Alive, and Bananarama) often wrote their own material; next they would record the music with extensive use of synthesizers, drum machines (drums were often credited to 'A Linn', a reference to the Linn brand of drum machine) and sequencers; and then finally bring in a singer solely to record the vocal track.
rage: right, so - for my example, while the song is being recorded, is it like I said? - Stock or Aitken or the other guy presses play and the computer says "tay-tay-tay", and then Mel and Kim continue, "take or leave us..."....? Wow! If that's what's going on, it sounds pretty seamless!! - between woman and machine! And CREEPY!!!
Is there some way to program the whole song, into a studio set up, ie. get drum machines and samplers and synthesizers and whatever else, to collaborate - for example, if you took the sample from "Under Pressure" to do Ice Ice Baby - you program the beat into a drum machine, but the sample - the "ting-ting-ting-ta-ta-ting-ting" has to play at, er, the appropriate points in the song - is there some way for the drum machine to tell the sampler that it's reached that point, and it's time to start singing "ting-ting-ting...."?
Btw - are you British?
Is there some way to program the whole song, into a studio set up, ie. get drum machines and samplers and synthesizers and whatever else, to collaborate - for example, if you took the sample from "Under Pressure" to do Ice Ice Baby - you program the beat into a drum machine, but the sample - the "ting-ting-ting-ta-ta-ting-ting" has to play at, er, the appropriate points in the song - is there some way for the drum machine to tell the sampler that it's reached that point, and it's time to start singing "ting-ting-ting...."?
Btw - are you British?
I'm also curious about modern well, I won't call them musicians, but, say, DJs - like Martin Garrix or whoever - what are they actually doing on stage? Like, I see neither musical instruments, nor, for that matter, computers!! (though I can't say I looked very carefully). At least with the Pet Shop Boys, that guy was on a *computer*, and we know what a computer is! (and the other guy was actually SINGING!). Is there some way for a computer program to *generate* music? (I'm sure I've heard of such things right here on Pouet, even!). So - those knobs and dials and buttons in front of him - what are they for???!! Do they tweak the parameters to some algorithm? I find this a pretty mind-boggling concept....
Also, for a song like "How deep is your love" (I forget whether it's David Guetta or Calvin Harris, I'm sure you've heard it), there's a girl singing the song - "How deep is your love" - but on stage there's no singer!! What's going on? If it's just a sample being played back at the right point, once again - how does the "how deep..." play at the right points? If David/Calvin changes the song live, while playing on stage, to say, elongate some part of the melody just before that bit, then that "how deep..." now has to play, say, a second later - how does the sampler know this?? How is this whole thing handled?? And most importantly, how does one guy on stage juggle the whole thing?? What's he doing, to repeat my question??
Heh, it would seem like what a conductor is to an orchestra, he is to a computer program, or maybe a bunch of them! Incredible!! (IF that's what's going on....)
Also, for a song like "How deep is your love" (I forget whether it's David Guetta or Calvin Harris, I'm sure you've heard it), there's a girl singing the song - "How deep is your love" - but on stage there's no singer!! What's going on? If it's just a sample being played back at the right point, once again - how does the "how deep..." play at the right points? If David/Calvin changes the song live, while playing on stage, to say, elongate some part of the melody just before that bit, then that "how deep..." now has to play, say, a second later - how does the sampler know this?? How is this whole thing handled?? And most importantly, how does one guy on stage juggle the whole thing?? What's he doing, to repeat my question??
Heh, it would seem like what a conductor is to an orchestra, he is to a computer program, or maybe a bunch of them! Incredible!! (IF that's what's going on....)
Quote:
Is there some way to program the whole song, into a studio set up, ie. get drum machines and samplers and synthesizers and whatever else, to collaborate
Sure there is.. You can use a digital audio workstation software.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_workstation
Let's just make this the officially last straw. Next idiotic thread and I'm HTTP-forwarding him to StackOverflow.
Also, http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/eoc/help_vampire.htm applies still.
Dang, so my updated version comes too late? ;)
So one last(?) time:
So one last(?) time:
hey ruairi, my old friend! :) was just wondering how long it'd be afore ye showed up n all - I posted THREE threads, and no "NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN" - wow! :)
er - what's idiotic about it, if you don't mind my asking? one guy WAS replying...?
er - what's idiotic about it, if you don't mind my asking? one guy WAS replying...?
Quote:
er - what's idiotic about it, if you don't mind my asking?
well, this site is called pouet and not live action google.
bitnaughty: I suggest you read in detail the article that Gargaj has linked to. You're consistently posting broad questions and wasting people's time without bothering to do the slightest bit of research. You're not even respectful of the audience.
In addition, any knowledge shared with you will be of no end, up until the point you have another navel gazing question about the universe that you want to put absolutely no effort into researching and expect other people to spend their free time entertaining.
I suggest you consider the next time you post whether you are contributing or just taking from this community, because your reputation precedes you, and I'm not the only one who's utterly fed up with it.
In addition, any knowledge shared with you will be of no end, up until the point you have another navel gazing question about the universe that you want to put absolutely no effort into researching and expect other people to spend their free time entertaining.
I suggest you consider the next time you post whether you are contributing or just taking from this community, because your reputation precedes you, and I'm not the only one who's utterly fed up with it.
Quote:
If You're a Help Vampire…
Now you know. Stop. Of course, it's not just that easy, or nobody would ever be a Help Vampire at all.
Before you ask a question in a community, try to find the answer elsewhere. This way you help yourself by stretching your mind and research abilities, and you learn things more thoroughly too. Plus it's good karma.
Always try these avenues first:
Keep troubleshooting. Often we learn that it's easier to give up and ask for help rather than persisting—when we'd get our breakthrough if we'd only delay giving up for another 10 minutes. Respect yourself, go a little further before giving up.
Google, of course. Try at least 3 or 4 searches before you give it up as hopeless.
Mailing lists, forums, and newsgroups. Chances are, you're not the first person on the Earth to have this problem. Luckily we live in an age where we can search the past. Check out these resources next.
Docs. Sometimes they seem impenetrable, but give it a whack. The more you learn, the easier the documentation will be to understand and decipher.
Ask your question—but phrase it differently. Instead of asking your question directly, ask "Has anyone has seen this problem?" or "Can anyone point me in the right direction?" Likely as not, someone will have been there before, and they might know a blog posting or other resource which can help you out. This way, you show you are respectful of their time, and understand your problem is (probably) not unique.
When you do ask a question, try to provide as much background detail as possible.
..OK, at least that's a civil ANSWER, I'll give you one too.
Umm - I SAID I was new - "never been into audio programming or sound" see? I don't really know whether I wanna get into this kinda thing....just wanted to know these things mainly for fun! That's not research - like, you know, some people play the piano as a hobby - they don't plan to go to a fucking COLLEGE to learn it or something!! y'know...?
"fed up"? ...with what? like, bro, if you know - answer, if you don't, then don't - takes you 2 seconds to click the Back button on your browser and not READ my posts if you don't want to?? Google.....well, umm....it can...well - Google, I'm sure you know how it works, it searches for *keywords* - it doesn't know what music is or how it's made...? :) It doesn't actually understand the phrase "gentle introduction"? :) In any case, rage ANSWERED - he thought it was worthy of answering? like, he knew the answer, and...he did? :) (though very little).
Just as an aside - I see you've made music for 2 prods,.... I was listening to some Daft Punk song the other day, and was discussing it on the net, and some person posted saying "that awful soulless computer music" or something like that - if you've reeeeeesearched everything about this n all, and are planning to get into/have got into this full time - this is your target audience! May not be ALL people (obviously), but still... sounds like a revenue stream about to make its exit, and therefore a good reason not to get into this stuff at ALL!...? Not trying to help you or anything, just....wanna prevent another David Guetta being born somewhere in the world..... ME, I don't WANT to do that - I believe, you wanna make music, start with learning an INSTRUMENT!! It's not that computers cannot be used to make good music (which is what the examples above were about) - but there's a Big Difference between an artist using a computer to make music, and......the software taking over......well - that's like, the end of the world! (which, is what David Guetta/Martin Garrix/etc. etc. ARE - and 99% of the charts today). THAT is what was going through my mind when I posted.
That being said, I, for example, love many Spectrum game music's till today - I wouldn't say those weren't art.....knowwhumsayin....? It's just....my brain is somewhere in the middle.....kinda like lots of people here - that's the point of posting on *pouet* - do you think Martix Garrix-type people know what a tracker program is? :) (well - he may, I suppose....)
OK, phew! that's all I feel like typing, and as humanly civil as I can be. It's two in the morning, and I'm....out of here. If you reply, show respect, can't guarantee I'll see it tho.
Umm - I SAID I was new - "never been into audio programming or sound" see? I don't really know whether I wanna get into this kinda thing....just wanted to know these things mainly for fun! That's not research - like, you know, some people play the piano as a hobby - they don't plan to go to a fucking COLLEGE to learn it or something!! y'know...?
"fed up"? ...with what? like, bro, if you know - answer, if you don't, then don't - takes you 2 seconds to click the Back button on your browser and not READ my posts if you don't want to?? Google.....well, umm....it can...well - Google, I'm sure you know how it works, it searches for *keywords* - it doesn't know what music is or how it's made...? :) It doesn't actually understand the phrase "gentle introduction"? :) In any case, rage ANSWERED - he thought it was worthy of answering? like, he knew the answer, and...he did? :) (though very little).
Just as an aside - I see you've made music for 2 prods,.... I was listening to some Daft Punk song the other day, and was discussing it on the net, and some person posted saying "that awful soulless computer music" or something like that - if you've reeeeeesearched everything about this n all, and are planning to get into/have got into this full time - this is your target audience! May not be ALL people (obviously), but still... sounds like a revenue stream about to make its exit, and therefore a good reason not to get into this stuff at ALL!...? Not trying to help you or anything, just....wanna prevent another David Guetta being born somewhere in the world..... ME, I don't WANT to do that - I believe, you wanna make music, start with learning an INSTRUMENT!! It's not that computers cannot be used to make good music (which is what the examples above were about) - but there's a Big Difference between an artist using a computer to make music, and......the software taking over......well - that's like, the end of the world! (which, is what David Guetta/Martin Garrix/etc. etc. ARE - and 99% of the charts today). THAT is what was going through my mind when I posted.
That being said, I, for example, love many Spectrum game music's till today - I wouldn't say those weren't art.....knowwhumsayin....? It's just....my brain is somewhere in the middle.....kinda like lots of people here - that's the point of posting on *pouet* - do you think Martix Garrix-type people know what a tracker program is? :) (well - he may, I suppose....)
OK, phew! that's all I feel like typing, and as humanly civil as I can be. It's two in the morning, and I'm....out of here. If you reply, show respect, can't guarantee I'll see it tho.
Quote:
like, you know, some people play the piano as a hobby - they don't plan to go to a fucking COLLEGE to learn it or something!!
The also don't flood forums with every basic question that they can think of...
Quote:
..OK, at least that's a civil ANSWER, I'll give you one too.
Umm - I SAID I was new - "never been into audio programming or sound" see? I don't really know whether I wanna get into this kinda thing....just wanted to know these things mainly for fun! That's not research - like, you know, some people play the piano as a hobby - they don't plan to go to a fucking COLLEGE to learn it or something!! y'know...?
"fed up"? ...with what? like, bro, if you know - answer, if you don't, then don't - takes you 2 seconds to click the Back button on your browser and not READ my posts if you don't want to?? Google.....well, umm....it can...well - Google, I'm sure you know how it works, it searches for *keywords* - it doesn't know what music is or how it's made...? :) It doesn't actually understand the phrase "gentle introduction"? :) In any case, rage ANSWERED - he thought it was worthy of answering? like, he knew the answer, and...he did? :) (though very little).
Just as an aside - I see you've made music for 2 prods,.... I was listening to some Daft Punk song the other day, and was discussing it on the net, and some person posted saying "that awful soulless computer music" or something like that - if you've reeeeeesearched everything about this n all, and are planning to get into/have got into this full time - this is your target audience! May not be ALL people (obviously), but still... sounds like a revenue stream about to make its exit, and therefore a good reason not to get into this stuff at ALL!...? Not trying to help you or anything, just....wanna prevent another David Guetta being born somewhere in the world..... ME, I don't WANT to do that - I believe, you wanna make music, start with learning an INSTRUMENT!! It's not that computers cannot be used to make good music (which is what the examples above were about) - but there's a Big Difference between an artist using a computer to make music, and......the software taking over......well - that's like, the end of the world! (which, is what David Guetta/Martin Garrix/etc. etc. ARE - and 99% of the charts today). THAT is what was going through my mind when I posted.
That being said, I, for example, love many Spectrum game music's till today - I wouldn't say those weren't art.....knowwhumsayin....? It's just....my brain is somewhere in the middle.....kinda like lots of people here - that's the point of posting on *pouet* - do you think Martix Garrix-type people know what a tracker program is? :) (well - he may, I suppose....)
OK, phew! that's all I feel like typing, and as humanly civil as I can be. It's two in the morning, and I'm....out of here. If you reply, show respect, can't guarantee I'll see it tho.
Your sense of entitlement for people to entertain your casual thoughts combined with your laziness makes you very fucking irritating. You could literally type in "introduction to music production" into Google and find many links to help you get started if you really were that keen. Hell, even the Demoscene article on Wikipedia links to SEVEN pieces of tracker software you could investigate to get started. Google has long since had natural language processing, you can ask questions like "how do people produce music?" and it'll give you yet another page full of links to jump off to.
Quote:
Umm - I SAID I was new - "never been into audio programming or sound" see? I don't really know whether I wanna get into this kinda thing....just wanted to know these things mainly for fun! That's not research - like, you know, some people play the piano as a hobby - they don't plan to go to a fucking COLLEGE to learn it or something!! y'know...?]
lol get fucked buddy