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Having organized a demoparty in 2020 and 2021, both being regarded safe and not having resulted in a single (known) infection, I have the feeling this subject should be discussed.

(Also, this is supposed to lure away the trolls from the Deadline thread)

Here are a couple of strategies I suppose:

1.) If climate allows, move your party outdoors

Luckily for Underground Conference, the party always had been outdoors, so this was an easy one for us. Obviously being outdoors limits risks from aerosols, and allows easier social distancing. If it's not an option to make your party fully outdoors, try to at least move parts of it outdoors (for example dancing)

2.) Make your party vaccinated-only without any exceptions, and demand proof of vaccination at registration time

This way even if someone carries an infection, the risk of someone who has visited your party dying is very limited. This also makes sure organizers and visitors don't have to feel guilty if infections happen.

Also, doing this will avoid having the organizers spend most of the party doing silly "I do not need to be vaccinated, because godzilla said so" discussions at the door. All the trolling will happen up-front.

3.) Do risk management on your visitors

If visitors are using a method of high-risk transport, or coming from a high-risk area, ask them to bring a negative PCR test. This might make sense for visitors flying in from remote countries, visiting very crowded places like airports.

4.) Offer free daily rapid testing

As we all know, rapid tests are of limited use to detect short-term infections. But they still are of SOME use, and will further limit risks a bit. Also, they are so cheap these days (less than 3 Euros when bought in bulk).

5.) Try to implement additional safety measures

Try to get an oversized venue to allow social distancing. Make sure sanitizers are available at every surface that is touched by multiple people. Require masks in high-risk areas (toilets, on in-door dancefloor). For the dancefloor you may now consider not to require a mask if that policy has been communicated transparently so people can make an informed choice (everybody needs to be, but not everybody needs to dance).

6.) Be transparent and give choice

Remind people that if they don't like those rules, they have every right to NOT join your party, and can instead join a party with policies they prefer, create their own party, or to not go to any party at all.

7.) Ignore the "let's not do a party" crowd

In 2020, those people said "let's wait until 2021 before doing a party again". The very same people in 2021 said "let's wait until 2022". It's easy to guess what they'll say in 2022. For some, Corona simply appears to be an excuse to never again accept the inconveniences and risks going to a demoparty always had and always will have. This pandemic very likely will not end, and with this in mind, realistic and non-emotional risk management is a much better strategy. Everybody is free not to go to (or organize) a demoparty for whatever reason they wish, and Corona is just one item on a very long list of possible reasons. But sitting it out does not appear to be a realistic strategy.

All incredibly good points and I definitely see some these measures stick for a long time at parties.

No need to jab towards people that are still hesitant though, everybody has their own pace, which might also be dictated by local law. You are doing great groundwork showing how to implement these measures and how it might work, people will catch up!

Persons who have been infected have to wait 6 months before they can get vaccinated here (and most of the EU apparently). Are those excluded? Scientifically speaking, there's no consensus from what I read.

Scamp previously I would have disagreed with you about the possibility of having any kind of IRL party. Now with the availability of effective vaccines and a better understanding I think there is a realistic way to achieve it. I agree with you on all points, except perhaps that the pandemic "will not end". I think that it will eventually.

The pandemic might end, covid will never disappear tho.

xernobyl: Ok, point taken. I guess 2.) should be changed to "exceptions can be made if fully documented and discussed well in advance of the party". This is to make sure your party is not ruined by people starting discussions about them demanding an exception at the door.

(But statistically I find it highly unlikely that we would encounter such a case for a demoparty)

Yes, I must unfortunately agree on that.

okkie: In regards of the "wait until 20xx" crowd I probably am biased due to some of those having done public shaming in the kind of "it's irresponsable to do/attend a party in 2020/2021!" over those who did.

But besides that/those you of course are right. There are a lot of people I've missed seeing in 2020/2021, and I'd be sad to again not see them in 2022, but if they re-appear in 2023, that would still be better than "never".

I guess we can generalize: We most likely will have to make "risk management in regards of highly transmissible respiratory diseases" a standard measure in demoparty organizing, no matter if it's a new Covid-19 mutation, or some other new SARS variant.

Excellent points from everyone. One thing I would like to add:

Keep supporting remote participation.

The pandemic era has been a proving ground for online participation and one that has delivered many valuable lessons. Even if all strains of COVID magically disappeared tomorrow, I'd hate if it meant we discarded all this experience and knowledge. And they won't - as pointed out here, the pandemic will probably end but the virus won't go anywhere, and local epidemics and local restrictions may well still be an issue with global gatherings. If Revision 2022 happens at E-Werk but the shit hits the fan in Finland in March, I'd be gutted if I couldn't at least take part in the compos.

I do realize that Revision Online requires significant effort and it's not realistic to expect anyone to organize the same standard of Revision Online while also organizing a Revision IRL at the same time. Also, one of this year's lessons was, sadly, the harsh reminder that corporations are not our friends, and not everyone might have access to a plan B for when their Twitch gets nuked from space. Doing both is definitely not a no-brainer and will require more planning, more effort, and more mistakes to learn from.

Still, I think we should start with binning the rule that you have to be physically there to compete.

Not true, over here (Croatia, also EU) people that were infected are vaccinated within 1-3 months after infection, if they want, of course. Know for sure that few other EU countries are doing this as well.

OK, so about the thread topic: I don't see the point in organizing a physical demoparty during a pandemic. As we've seen with events that took place sofar, whatever setup with regards to testing and vaccinations you choose as an organizer you are bound to alienate some part of your potential audience because people on both sides of the fence are acting so emotional about this nonsense. For me, organizing parties has always been about bringing people together, not driving them apart. So fuck this shit, I'm sticking to online until cooler minds prevail.

@bonefish here, Portugal, you have to wait 6 months after being infected, I suspect that this will change once everyone is vaccinated. I had a positive test the week I had my vaccine scheduled, now have to wait. From my math I should be able to take it before revision, so no biggie.

I agree with scamp's points.

@havoc
I disagree. Organizing a party would exactly help to bring people together.
Yes, not everybody will be able to attend but It's not like I haven't missed/excluded from events I really wanted to attend in the past due to financial, time or location issues.
Does it really mean that people can't try to celebrate together until some unknown point in the future ? What counts as a tipping point ? What really counts as excluded ?

Yes, I really appreciate the on-line events that have been happening but I would be lying if I said that I wasn't missing on-site events and would attend one in heartbeat if timing allowed.
Early 2021 I would have looked badly at anyone trying to do live events but now I think it's finally realistic to get an actual on-site event going on responsibly. Plus remember that a ton of events got streamed as well pre-pandemic (including venue cameras) so it's not like you're really truly missing out or being excluded. If anything, it could offer an even more true party feeling for remote viewers.
Note that I don't wish to attack your POV but I simply wanted to point out why I think it's flawed. Can agree to disagree.

Anyway, I am probably biased. 15+ PCR tests, few flights, and being tracked via a phone for 24/7, for almost a year in my current situation. Above vaccine + test feels about what I'd expect and require for a party I'd be doing. It's really not a big entry barrier at all.

Take a quick peek at the Deadline thread. Do you seriously think these people are ready to party together?

The trolls in the deadline thread without any exception are people who have never before visited Deadline and had no plans to visit Deadline.

If we are about driving apart actual sceners and destructive trolls - hey, yes, let's do exactly that.

That's bullshit and you know it Scamp

We have had two Underground Conferences during the pandemic so far, and they did not alienate any past visitors from what I can tell. Yes, we had some people who had visited UC in the past who said that despite the security measures we had would rather wait for a year. Most of those however had been "...because I haven't had my second vaccine shot yet".

So, no, at the biggest, longest and most frequent demoparty during the pandemic we did not have the issue of driving people apart. It worked out really well.

We also did not have the troll problem the Deadline thread right now has. Yes, we did allow non-vaccinated people, but mostly because back then not everyone was yet eligible for a vaccine shot. Maybe that's the difference.

In addition - and this part is speculation, not for a fact - I think it's fair to believe that some variant/mutation of Covid-19 will be with us forever, as will be the trolls. I don't think ithere is much to gain by pushing your party to 2022. The situation will be comparable: Vaccines are available, the virus is present, and the anti-vaxxers will troll. Well, the trolls might have gotten bored by then and moved on to other conspiracy theories, but for me that's nothing I'd give up going to a party for.

Name one person in that thread who complained about the vaccinated-only policy that you can find in the registered visitor's list of Deadline 2019:

https://deadline.untergrund.net/2019/ (scroll down)

No, it's not bullshit, unless facts are bullshit these days.

I did take a look, yes.
Granted, I did rather quickly skim through but I still don't see why a party can't be organized without the vaccine + PCR clause.
From what I could see, there is also a lot of agreement towards that and after that it's the usual covid shitslinging. But hey, this is the internet.

I meant that I don't see the vaccination + PCR clause requirement being an obstacle for party organizing, brainfart. But you probably got my point.

If you care to remember, both bifat and i were co-organising Deadline 2019 and the occasional earlier instalment.

oasiz: I have a much harder time saying "hey, this is the internet" because a bunch of those folks are my fellow organizers at various demoparties.

scamp: ... nah, it's still bullshit, sorry

I understand, hence why I usually stay away from all these discussions and rather try to have a good conversation later in-person where it's much harder to misunderstand each other and emotions escalate :)

Anyway..
I've seen a lot of stuff for better or worse during these past two years. Friends, co-organizers for various events, etc.. so I can symphatize.

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