pouët.net

i was wondering, web2.0 concepts could sometimes(!) be good, why not trying coop compos instead of deathmatch ones ? (yup this is an explicit gaming reference so that some around could blithely issue their fatwa)

knos made me notice that digital creators now gather online around many community sites but that the demoscene is still a place where people do work in a group.

so why not collaborative compos, online or in parties, where newcomers or ind people or even bored oldschoolers could gather and work on the same prod, under some directing rules and maybe a main theme ?

those compos would probably need some solid frame to let the 'coopetitors' be independent enough, and a voting system to decide who the best contributor, and maybe a basic version/branch system to decide which branches should be kept if contributions are overlapping.

i remember #pixelfr (i think) compos where people had to draw the sequel of their neighbour drawings, why not trying that simpler concept in tracking or even demomaking ? :)

would require people being ok with sharing all their code with anyone at the party. that, or people will only contribute directly cooked-up crap. in short, the problem is that demos take longer to be made than a demoparty (but hey, how could you know). and if you're going to work on something for longer than that, most people prefer to pick their own teammates.

you, btw, forgot to mention that those simpler collaborative ideas (here's a pattern/corner/effect, you continue it and pass it on) invariably turn out to become utter crap.

it's a nice idea imho, but it wouldnt work.

btw, i must say that the fatwa, as you so naievely like to call it, seems to be paying off - this topic is almost sensible! (almost) (there's work to do, still)

how about letting collaborations come up naturally between people who enjoy working with each other? like the way it goes now?

gargaj: to change or spice up the things a bit for a moment ;)

skrebbel: yeah there are many underlying difficulties but i naively think those compos could produce some worthy big prods with shorter time spent per person.

it's like you would be playing in a rock band with people you don't know, or you didn't choose to play with.
Can be, but not as fun.

without trying to be mean, i do think you don't know what you're talking about; try to make a full-scale demo and come back to see if you still think so. there aren't many underlying difficulties, there are too many of them.

when team sizes increase, management and communication needs an increasingly larger part of the available man hours. in the demoscene there is a cultural aversion against management telling people what to do (except in rebels, but nobody else understands those guys anyway) and a working tradition of low communication. even with the smaller teams that make demos right now, communication is often the bottleneck.

I fail to understand what "Web 2.0" has to do with anything -- people collaborate over the net already (and have done, for.. you know.. ages!) and they still need to have their usual tools (MSVC, Reason, Photoshop) to get things done.. and besides; people usually have a strong preference in who they choose to work on a demo with. :)

..but somehow I like the idea anyway -- it defies logic, really.

actually i was thinking of a web2.0 platform or a demotool that could provide the solid grounds to make people work for the same prod without any management needed.

it would be easier to start with some photomosaic or drawing or musicmaking, but demomaking would be reachable if demotools accept new effects through plugins.

willbe: that's exactly what rockband does ;)

mmm... Might be a nice idea, but dunno if it works, because the people for collaborate has did the classic things, like share the project sending the stubs via floppies, contacting by telephone and BBS, and nowdays by Internet with the emails, forums and communities (more easier, but I think the old days was better). I think the people still prefer the old method for collab nowdays too, with Internet.

PS: Maybe a good idea is make OHC tracked music with a web 2.0 platform ;)

btw that would probably be quite experimental and limited stuff, and there won't be that coherent design sought in latest prods, but the megademo concept was fun too, wasn't it? ;)

Zest: I don't know if you have just never actually produced a demo or that you are delusional in some other sense, but demomaking doesn't work that way in reality, sorry. :)

However, having some sort of webpage where people can cooperate on limited visual something is a cool enough idea. Just too bad that Stefan will be logged in all the time and paste goatse-picures into every ongoing project. :)

As a related side-note, I'd really love to see some kind of demo remix-compo. Team up with another group, exchange source code with them, and remix their asses off!

I remember a time around 1994 when everyone was in melon/dreamdealer/syndrome/movement/ and anyway changed of group each month... at the end the group signatures meant nothing particular, ... and anyway being in a group and having competitions doesn't mean tribalism.

Kusma: That would actually RULE.

@ds: I think battleofthebits.org is somehow what you're searching for :D

Wasn't there something called "tiles" or something, a few years back? For graphicians I mean..

gloom: tiles.ice.org?

"DemoMeister" ?! (*)

Kusma: Yeah, that was a cool site - someone should put something like that up again.

Zest: Instead of posting wank threads on pouet, why not try making a demo, either alone or with friends? That would offer you insight into this thing called making demos.

Indeed.

Preacher & keops: yada yada yada, this is getting boring, this is the *BBS* not the demo database part, right ? or should i need to show you my curriculum whenever i write a quite serious message ? :/

and why would demomaking stay an immutable process engraved in stone, why could it not evolve with the new techniques and trendy creative ways ?

and please stop focusing on that nickname Zest, who cares about it seriously, i don't.


about remix compos, those are great! i was also wondering, most people aren't satisfied with the state of their prods at the deadlines, why not offering a 'new & improved' compo or 'harder better faster stronger' compo where groups are allowed to submit new versions of their former released prods, that would rule i think for perfectionist people :)