NVision 08
category: general [glöplog]
actually though even seal clubbing has got a bit commercial lately; lots of press coverage and such. we should probably steer clear.
Look, all I know is that the demoscene is always astep or two ahead the game industry, which is considered to be the mainstream for graphic processing (movies are pre-rendered, they don't count).
I was at GDC 2008, and there was a lecture about "Procedural data generation in FAR-CRY2" by Dominic Guay. After the lecture I asked him if he knows about the demo scene - he said no. I've shown him some of my favorite demos, told him those are realtime from year so and so, and his jaw cracked open.
I believe the demoscene is where the actual GPU/CPU hackery comes from - I believe the demoscene was the first to use pixel shaders in realtime for effects, and doing way more then "realtime"
I am pretty sure nVidia sees the demoscene as some sort of source to new advanced technology and inspiration, and they want to help themselves helping ourselves (Mutualism) - we help them know their own hardware better, they give us (or the scene) great hardware (not the free hardware, I'm speaking future technology) to 'exploit' and have fun with.
They sponsor us events with free of their best HW, and we show what this hardware is really capable of!
Come on sceners! wake up! they are "using us" for our own benifit, why don't just shut up and enjoy it?!
I was at GDC 2008, and there was a lecture about "Procedural data generation in FAR-CRY2" by Dominic Guay. After the lecture I asked him if he knows about the demo scene - he said no. I've shown him some of my favorite demos, told him those are realtime from year so and so, and his jaw cracked open.
I believe the demoscene is where the actual GPU/CPU hackery comes from - I believe the demoscene was the first to use pixel shaders in realtime for effects, and doing way more then "realtime"
I am pretty sure nVidia sees the demoscene as some sort of source to new advanced technology and inspiration, and they want to help themselves helping ourselves (Mutualism) - we help them know their own hardware better, they give us (or the scene) great hardware (not the free hardware, I'm speaking future technology) to 'exploit' and have fun with.
They sponsor us events with free of their best HW, and we show what this hardware is really capable of!
Come on sceners! wake up! they are "using us" for our own benifit, why don't just shut up and enjoy it?!
liranuna: its more fun to take the oportunity to insult our favorite hatemarks.
stupid bashing here...
...first everyone complains about "the demoscene is dying" and when there comes a helping Hand,evryone is shouting "commercial sell-out".!
I think its a good thing all in all...Both,NVIDIA and the Demoscene will receive their advantages out of this...
...speaking of the Demoscene i think of new Blood and new Ideas and maybe a bit more attention.!
just my 2bitZ ;)
btw.: i dont think the DemoScene is close to dead or will ever die.! ;) (BP´08 will show again ;) )
...first everyone complains about "the demoscene is dying" and when there comes a helping Hand,evryone is shouting "commercial sell-out".!
I think its a good thing all in all...Both,NVIDIA and the Demoscene will receive their advantages out of this...
...speaking of the Demoscene i think of new Blood and new Ideas and maybe a bit more attention.!
just my 2bitZ ;)
btw.: i dont think the DemoScene is close to dead or will ever die.! ;) (BP´08 will show again ;) )
LiruNuna: What a load of crap u are coming with. The demoscene doesn`t even wanna use DirectX 10.1 and Vista yet because of the Vista whiners.
And btw, get the book "GPU Gems 3".....the demoscene is sooooo far far behind, with a few exceptions.
And btw, get the book "GPU Gems 3".....the demoscene is sooooo far far behind, with a few exceptions.
Zplex: The demoscene doesn't want to use DirectX 10.x and Vista because no one can see the prods, because few sceners have installed Vista. And why would they, anyway? I've used it at school and at work and it's exactly the piece of garbage everyone says it is. Besides, it's not like game companies are making Vista only things either...
And LiraNuna: You're wrong. Games are leaps and bounds ahead of the demoscene, for now and for foreseeable future. What you are saying was true 10 years ago, but not anymore.
And LiraNuna: You're wrong. Games are leaps and bounds ahead of the demoscene, for now and for foreseeable future. What you are saying was true 10 years ago, but not anymore.
elsewhere added to the list of Vista whiners...to be continued.
Zplex: The demoscene is _NOT_
FUCKING
WINDOWS
ONLY.
FUCKING
WINDOWS
ONLY.
scenerhub.pl: Surely not, but it`s the majority believe it or not :)
the accentuation lies on "FUCKING" ;)
games have mastered the art of making everything look brown out of a GPU.
all I know is that the demoscene is always astep or two ahead the game industry
ah finally someone with some clue.
probably you can explain me then why no one is using paralax mapping,normalmaps,ambient occlusion,...
and why are all the elitary coders are going to fmx and sniff around on released free papers to get ideas and code fragments instead of innovating the world?
the scene is at least 3-4 years behind actual game developments.
ah finally someone with some clue.
probably you can explain me then why no one is using paralax mapping,normalmaps,ambient occlusion,...
and why are all the elitary coders are going to fmx and sniff around on released free papers to get ideas and code fragments instead of innovating the world?
the scene is at least 3-4 years behind actual game developments.
Then again, having buzzwords in your game or demo doesn't make it any better if the concept and soul are not there.
wrong thread dude. this is the demoscene. we are not judging the gameplay of demos here
xenusion .. fmx is hardly siggraph
true, sorry :D
i dont jump around there... its just for posers and coders.
i dont jump around there... its just for posers and coders.
xenusion: there are some exceptions. AO has been used in several demos by ASD e.g. and even in 4ks (iirc kindernoizer, fuzzion intros, etc.). Also normal maps are in use (see kolor's relais, even speckdrumm demos) - you should know best that final audition also uses them ;)
what did FMX do to you really? I have a hard time imagining how someone can get worked up against something as inoffensive as that.
the demoscene is always astep or two etc. etc. :
That may be true for a percentage of the demoscene and a percentage of the game industry. It is not black & white.
and also I agree with preacher, you can have all your paralax mapping in the world, but a shit demo can be a shit demo with or without fancy technologies.
You have to add something else to the mix - and that something else is not always found in games company. Speaking from personal experience that.
That may be true for a percentage of the demoscene and a percentage of the game industry. It is not black & white.
and also I agree with preacher, you can have all your paralax mapping in the world, but a shit demo can be a shit demo with or without fancy technologies.
You have to add something else to the mix - and that something else is not always found in games company. Speaking from personal experience that.
of coz i have to agree. but thats something you cant measure and its a different thing for everyone... some still proclaim "peezeeh demos suck and only scrollers have the vibe".
so you can not excuse the lack of technical innovation of the scene.
we once were pushing the industry forward ... now we are getting pushed by the industry.
obviously this happens in different ways... cocksucking here and there, omnipresent mediacoverage for certain persons who try to sell their stuff,moneymaking,taking code from game tech papers, ripped ideas/plots from commercials,videos.
i dont know where the voyage goes but i hope the scene stays somehow fair.
so you can not excuse the lack of technical innovation of the scene.
we once were pushing the industry forward ... now we are getting pushed by the industry.
obviously this happens in different ways... cocksucking here and there, omnipresent mediacoverage for certain persons who try to sell their stuff,moneymaking,taking code from game tech papers, ripped ideas/plots from commercials,videos.
i dont know where the voyage goes but i hope the scene stays somehow fair.
I do agree that we are behind games tech-wise, what makes sense because an average scene coder invests say 4 hours a week on demos (and doesn't get paid of course). However,
-> that was only true in 2004 man.
Quote:
no one is using paralax mapping,normalmaps,ambient occlusion
-> that was only true in 2004 man.
Quote:
People tend to like to bash commercial things just because it's trendy to do so.
ring ring 1999 called.
oh and isn't "being ahead of the game industry" some piece of long-lost pride from the 80's? i mean, does it matter? anyhow? at all? what are you guys in this for anyway?
there's a whole playground and opportunity in demoscene for skilled coders looking for creativity : indeed current AAA games are ahead of demos, their budgets are comparable to movies, but gamemaking rules are very codified, almost rigid, even if gamedevs seek after originality instead of releasing the same sport or action game every year (hi EA!) and even if indie studios like introversion have been bringing fresh air (i am a videogame fanboy btw).
whereas demos have no such constrainst, specially no commercial one, the only but optional constrainst is to please a crowd of grumpy oldschoolers ;)
the only limit to demo art and personal expression is technique (and party deadlines!), there is no need to comply with a market reality.
let's take crysis (uh) for example, there's a whole trippy level inside the alienship, very demo'ish, the visual ambiance is a (master)piece of art, but apparently the level is blamed by gamers for being "boring" without any hollywoodesque action or story event. IMHO such a creation prevents crysis from being a total hollywoodesque turd (don't laugh at the final level) :p
that's why some gamedevs are still making demos or are coming back to their demo origins :)
whereas demos have no such constrainst, specially no commercial one, the only but optional constrainst is to please a crowd of grumpy oldschoolers ;)
the only limit to demo art and personal expression is technique (and party deadlines!), there is no need to comply with a market reality.
let's take crysis (uh) for example, there's a whole trippy level inside the alienship, very demo'ish, the visual ambiance is a (master)piece of art, but apparently the level is blamed by gamers for being "boring" without any hollywoodesque action or story event. IMHO such a creation prevents crysis from being a total hollywoodesque turd (don't laugh at the final level) :p
that's why some gamedevs are still making demos or are coming back to their demo origins :)
