Youtube is degrading audio after upload, and this will affect the Demoscene.

category: general [glöplog]
and that was also a long time ago

It really was not. Most* sceners were even alive back then, and as you say, that kind of short-term preservation is quite simple, just transfer the data to a new format. Things get much more interesting long-term. It doesn't matter how simple it is to transfer data to a new format if it isn't done. How much of this will be around in 500 years? 10000 years? I suspect future archeologists will tear their hair out over the current civilisations' "trivially preservable" digital legacy.
added on the 2021-12-05 13:56:27 by absence absence
added on the 2021-12-06 18:36:42 by Sir Sir
some musings about archival and longevity of data:

for what it's worth, back when PAL DV was still a thing I stored archival copies of my video stuff as uncompressed image sequences in a simple to parse file format (something that's easy to reverse engineer by looking at a hex editor). atm not an option with 4k. chances are good that primitive file formats can be easily loaded in the future, even primitive fm coding schemes like the ones used on old floppies and data tapes are accessible via "staring them down" and having a bit of understanding about math. as long as data is being kept alive somewhere it's fine (meaning: it's on live storage media somewhere, thank you scene.org!). also, as has already been said here: emulators are becoming more important. same goes for documentation imho. RFCs are plain text for a reason too. you get the idea.

I think it was Vernor Vinge who came up with the idea of "software archeologists" in his science fiction, I actually see this coming, it's probably already a thing once you think about archaic military mainframes and stuff like this. it's probably a good time to learn cobol and fortran :D

musings on the threads actual topic:
first, youtube is no longer compatible with cc-nc licenses, because youtube now claims the right to monetize everything. demo captures and a lot of other content is in dire need of an alternative. it saddens me that capped.tv and demoscene.tv are no longer a thing, but well... someone has to pay for it and it's becoming more problematic to host such services given new regulations regarding so called "user generated content" and copyright legislation.

youtube obviously "degrades" data, like all lossy codecs do. no surprise at all. sucky rips don't help.

in a perfect world I'd love to see someone step in and build an alternative to youtube for demoscene productions, whith particular attention to codec demands for scene prods with their weird framerates, resolutions, and so on.

just my two cents.
added on the 2021-12-07 10:50:54 by jco jco
youtube is no longer compatible with cc-nc licenses, because youtube now claims the right to monetize everything

This is actually a good point and something to think about.
Should we start monetizing every demo capture somehow because, if we don't, others will?
added on the 2021-12-07 11:15:59 by ham ham
Should we start monetizing every demo capture somehow because, if we don't, others will?

For the love of god, NO.
added on the 2021-12-07 11:20:23 by v3nom v3nom
youtube now claims the right to monetize everything

... in the context of financing their infrastructure to provide stable high bitrate streams worldwide, that is acceptable IMHO. That they have not done this earlier is surprising actually.
added on the 2021-12-07 13:07:16 by Salinga Salinga
if I put something under cc-nc license, I explicitly do not want it to be commercially used. plain and simple. regardless of whether I think youtubes monetizing of it is acceptable (it depends): if anyone other than myself uploads my content to youtube (and thus grants youtube a commercial license to it), I have to be asked first, because without my permission that's not allowed.

my point being: it doesn't matter whether you, as the uploader, find it acceptable, you need to get permission from the rights holder before you upload a capture of a demo to youtube. not only is this impractical, the implications really worry me, and the fact that the ideal of "let's go with super friendly licensing stuff to get our stuff out there" is stomped upon by the likes of youtube makes me sad.

by the way, unless you got 1000 subscribers and 4000 watch hours on your channel, you can't monetize anything.
added on the 2021-12-07 14:27:01 by jco jco
food for thought: with the typical view counts that demoscene productions have on yt, I don't think youtube is losing much money when not monetizing. a fair way of dealing with nc content would be to simply ristrict views beyond a traffic threshold (afaik vimeo has sth like this?), or only start running ads once a certain threshold is reached. anything but this "noone reads the TOS anyway btw by not replying to this mail you'll now granting yt commercial rights to all the stuff ktnxbye". bleh.
added on the 2021-12-07 14:32:20 by jco jco
not only is this impractical

Is it though, really? Or is that just a made-up excuse to keep the cottage industry running?

The people who make demos are usually easily accessible in several ways of communication, but they've received a lot more frustration than benefit from bad captures and then the owners of those channels doubling down on bad captures.
added on the 2021-12-07 14:34:19 by Gargaj Gargaj
@Gargaj it's impractical in the sense that it would be fine if there'd be a "no ads here" checkbox, which no longer exists. bad captures are another can of worms.
added on the 2021-12-07 16:10:22 by jco jco
Bad captures of Amiga demos is why I switched to emulation for all the high-end 68030/040 stuff in the first place.

Too many examples to list, but a lot of the YouTube videos for these Amiga demos look like they were transferred from VHS tape!

Another reason was the age-old Amiga problem of totally discrete stereo sides, sounds awful. I find using 50% stereo separation on WinUAE for everything is what the Amiga audio should've been in the first place.
added on the 2021-12-08 18:16:29 by Foebane72 Foebane72
I think this thread is a non-issue. But, hey, go on, that's what Pouet is all about ;-)
added on the 2021-12-08 19:13:11 by w00t! w00t!