preselection sucks

category: general [glöplog]
WF: It should be a pain in the ass to preselect among all those craps we dare to present. Sorry for that.
Maybe we all have to think that you selected all the best for best entertainment. Thank you.

What are you rambling about? Are you drunk? Where are you getting this? I commented during the party to various people (including for example Leia) that I thought the overall quality level of entries was better than last year. I can't make you think anything, that's why I invited you and everyone else who is interested to have a go at it yourself.

What's "disapointing" to you could be very good for another. Depends on the point of view man. Many different point of view lead to a rich common idea.

Oh no, you didn't just try to turn the words around to make it look like I called jco's entry dissappointing, did you? Could you at least try to be fair?

Third: The jury should select the songs all together through a common listening of the songs.

Dude, we're already doing it like this. I don't know where you are going with this post.

It's the respect you have to give to musicians who sometimes spend many days of their life on a song which won't even have focus.

No shit.

What was the point of your unnecessarily inflammatory post?
added on the 2006-04-20 21:21:44 by wayfinder wayfinder
In agreement with Gargaj, what's the point of complaining about disqualified stuff being released. In the end, you wanted it to be released anyway.

I wish this thread that originally talked about animation/video/demos preselection wouldn't have drifted towards music preselection.

Music is a bad candidate for whining because: 1) lots of entries can be produced (really, it's a pathological case) 2) production values and styles highly differ. You really can't argue against preselection, and if you don't, then you'll have to allow for great stuff to be left out and bad stuff to be left in, out of shear subjectivity.

I was *so* happy not having to do any sort of preselection at the second SOTA party. This stuff just stinks in the end.
added on the 2006-04-20 21:38:08 by _-_-__ _-_-__

I remember a time when i looked up to these guys and thought, my gosh, i could never do that!

I think many people thought like this but instead of me, they were actually learning how to do it and so there are many more prods today than like 5 years before.

Additionally all these things have become more easy through the development of Direct X on PC's and OpenGL/Quartz/quicktime on Mac.

So the huge mass of prods have to be filled in in such a small time.

Remember, just like a few years before, how much time was free between the compo's? They showed actually movies in the time between and didnt have to show the sponsor's ads in between.
We had just a Soundtracker Music compo and a C64 Music compo, for example. Now because of the masses of new formats and techniques, the organizers gave in to make new compos, with the price of preselection. But in this case it was really hard to judge. Quality or a true wild compo for everyone? Long or short compo?

It looks like it all drifts off into the commercial way. People who are asking themselves if they want to make it the way the viewers want it or the makers demand it?

I have very mixed feelings about the future of "Big" Parties like Breakpoint....
added on the 2006-04-20 21:52:17 by Exin Exin
Your track not being pre-selected to be played in the competition is dissappointing, I know only too well from personal experience

So... This was general fact, wasn't it? It's the words that just put mine on fire. All your quotes is just rhetoric. As I am a wise man, I will just stay blind on them.

Mate, really, there was nothing personal so stop thinking you are persecuted (read again the way you answer to JCO) because you are part of the organizers. I am not persecuting anybody. We are not indeed. Just trying to find a solution with having organizers in-depth questioning about that. For me, it's the only flaw.

The point is that I don't understand why music compos are so oriented at BP while I am often surprised of the good selection of Gathering or Assembly or even Evoke.
It just pissed me off because I don't think general quality is worst here than Assembly or Gathering.

I don't really care about being preselected or not. As said by Knos, it can be released if we want to.

But most musicians don't think this way. They work hard to present a song at BP. Eventually they just got silence.
In the end, they will stop presenting something anymore because good songs need hard work and some talent.

It's not exactly how I define the impressions I had while listening the selected ones at BP. Though, even if I am not into D&B/pure techno, I put a very high thumb up to Little Bitchard because it's just beautiful work. And I will do the same if we had 20 songs like this or at least done with the same honesty.

I was not drunk. Sorry dude.
added on the 2006-04-20 22:08:36 by oxb oxb
It's alright, maybe the wording wasn't 100% clear in retrospect. Of course it's not the song that's dissappointing but the fact that it wasn't played. I just needed to clear that up because if I had said the other thing that would have made me quite the dick I guess. :)
added on the 2006-04-20 22:21:30 by wayfinder wayfinder
"even evoke"? why even? without boasting around too much i'd say evoke had offered some of the more interesting music compos in recent demoparty history. anyway thanks for mentioning. =)
added on the 2006-04-20 22:43:10 by dipswitch dipswitch
haha, that wf quote out of context is just a too awesome mental image ;D
added on the 2006-04-20 23:04:01 by okkie okkie
Folks, it looks like we are probing big time tonight.
My time to be clear: I said "even Evoke" because it's a smaller party than Gathering/Assembly/Breakpoint so surely less contributions and it could turn in a difficult preselection focused on easiness to entertain more than discovering.
But it's none. The music compo at Evoke is really good and interesting.
added on the 2006-04-20 23:36:37 by oxb oxb
anyway, this years breakpoint actually has shown that quality wins - this is the first time in year (or probably the first time ever?) that a REAL dnb tune (and not one of those puny scene-dnbpop thingies) won the mp3 compo! this gives hope.
added on the 2006-04-21 02:15:50 by dipswitch dipswitch
dip, stop being so eclectic about genres, there are a shitload of styles that didnt win bp and prolly never will (think heavy metal, glitch or hardcore gabber - i'd also like to point out that slagging the genre contradicts your point so spare the agony) just because they're not as popular as trance or breakbeat. (leviathan had an excellent progmetal entry last year btw)

face it - its not the preselector whose guilty of not making an entry win, its the voters. you just cut slack from that one person because you can point him out whereas you cant personally go thru 800 people and complain about their votes.
added on the 2006-04-21 04:04:35 by Gargaj Gargaj
gargaj, i don't see myself complaining about preselection in this thread. i was just expressing my joy as a dnb head that this year a good entry won. i also wasn't mentioning any kind of "one person". read my post again.

and yes i am eclectic on this matter, so what. 90% of dnb produced in the demoscene sucks (also including the majority of my tunes - i have the ideas, but nearly no production skills). there were times, when people from trackinggroups (nowadays netlabels) were sticking around the demoscene, that there were jungle and dnb tunes produced in the scene that could easily match up with uk vinyl releases. nowadays, if there's a dnb soundtrack in a demo or in a partycompo, it's so watered down by demopop synthlines and other demoscene chichés... as raver said concerning a certain release a year ago: "muzik sounds like a dnb attempt but with these dibi-dibi beatz it lacks energy [...] just another one of these pretentious d'n'b tunes of the demoscene -- and i'm not sure if i'm glad for those, who doesn't hear a difference".

that's why i'm happy about elbee winning with his tune - it has what it takes.
added on the 2006-04-21 04:34:51 by dipswitch dipswitch
there were times, when people from trackinggroups (nowadays netlabels) were sticking around the demoscene, that there were jungle and dnb tunes produced in the scene that could easily match up with uk vinyl releases.

when did this happen?-) can you point me those releases which can match up uk vinyl releases?
added on the 2006-04-21 07:44:27 by uns3en_ uns3en_
you have to remember the vinyl uk releases average quality is quite poor too ;)

mono211 / ramone anyone? and that .mod artist whose name always escape me but made quite convincing, up-to-date (then) 4chan modules.
added on the 2006-04-21 08:21:19 by _-_-__ _-_-__
(insert a dnb in between 4chan and modules)
added on the 2006-04-21 08:21:35 by _-_-__ _-_-__
Hands up!

Who would like to witness a 5 hours (75 x 4 minutes) music competition marathon at a demoparty?

And would such a situation actually improve anything for the mediocre, bad or generic track?

No, no, no.

STFU and make well produced and less generic music.
added on the 2006-04-21 09:52:56 by rp rp
nicolas: substance?

oxbow: i would disagree with the quality of selected music at tg/asm/evoke actually. i dont consider them that off from breakpoint.
added on the 2006-04-21 12:05:33 by psenough psenough
rp: having a "less generic" preselection rule would own big time for sure O_O
added on the 2006-04-21 12:06:46 by psenough psenough
exin: stop talking nonsense, commercial factors and overcrowding of compo time has always happened since theparty days, there should be more big parties not less!! especially the scene only ones!
sponsors pay for a more enjoyable event, who cares if the ads pop up on the bigscreen now and again.
in the old days there werent any 2 hour long scene.org awards and 3x 1 hour long concerts. thats where your movie time came from.
added on the 2006-04-21 12:10:57 by psenough psenough
nah, just stop having music compos at all, they are taking time from video/animation compos and so my entries wont get time to be shown.
added on the 2006-04-21 12:49:52 by nosfe nosfe
the emotional pain of having the work of your friends on your desk and deciding not to enter it in a compo because i wouldn't fit for certain reason should not be underestimated.

// someone who for sure would not like to be part of any preselection team =)
added on the 2006-04-21 14:40:53 by dalezr dalezr
ok let me get this straight, cuz I'm still dizzy from being sick...

Someone WANTS commercial movies between the compos and is bitching about BP going commercial?

How about this:
Preselection sucks but is neccesary. It's also neccesary to rant about it afterwards. And to be on the jury requires more than just a good ear, it requires skin about 8km thick. Because no matter what you are GOING to bet bitched at. Which is even LESS fair.

75 or something entries? Awesome. Listening to 75 or something entries at the party? OMG no. Someone sifting thru them and letting us hear some of them and then we hear them later on Nectarine or somewhere - rather cool.

Awesome isn't going to happen here folks, unless we start having fewer musicians. And that would SUCK.

Anyway this wasn't about music to begin with.