scene music stolen

category: music [glöplog]
doom, yes it's been altered, but the first pattern is 80% identical. I know someone if working on a demonstration film, we'll see much more clearly. Yes there are some odd drums added in there, but it's much more clear when you have the actual files in front of you.
It's not just drums, it's a different bassline. There is no similarity apart from chord progression and style. Really.
added on the 2009-08-08 12:26:27 by doomdoom doomdoom
I beleive I wrote in my madtracker mod maker

I love that when those people say "I believe" and obviously don't know what the tune was really made in!
Don't forget - he's selling this game for big money...

Yes, I believe the market for $80 Atari cartridges is enormous! ;)

That said:

- There is no doubt that he ripped it
- What a prick
added on the 2009-08-08 13:07:27 by gloom gloom
It's not 80% identical. More like 33%.

The main bassline is identical to the booter mod. But it's like this: if you don't have a whole lot of composing skill and you're just banging away at the keys, you'll soon notice that repeating the same bass note but alternating between two octaves gives a groovy sort of sound. And the pattern of low-low-high-low-low-high-low-high is one of the first ones you discover. Believe me I've done it myself, and I'm not especially proud of that because it's a tacky and boring bassline that's been used by uninspired composers too many times already. In my defence I was like 12. But I didn't need to rip anything.

Now, in the booter mod the composer apparently realised that and tried to spice it up by throwing in some secondary bass notes. Still pretty dull if you ask me, but there's the first pretty big distinction. And then there's the drums. They're not just "thrown in", they're completely different from one mod to the other.

The samples sound the same and probably are the same plain ST-xx samples in both cases. So what? How many thousands of mods could you find that use the exact same ST-xx samples?

Anyway, what you're saying is that he ripped a bassline, not a mod (and a fucking common bassline at that). This means you're accusing him of taking someone else's module, loading it into a tracker, removing all but that main bassline and adding his own stuff as well. Fair enough. But then this sort of comment just looks retarded:

I love that when those people say "I believe" and obviously don't know what the tune was really made in!

If he was supposed to have simply ripped the module, it might look incriminating that he couldn't remember what tracker was used to make it. But since you're accusing him of modifying it, this is not incriminating at all.

Might it not be that he made an incredibly sucky song 20 years ago using what was at the time a very common bassline among talentless amateur composers, using the same shitty samples that everyone else was using at the time (probably the only ones he had access to), and now some friend asked him if he had an old mod lying around suitable for an oldschool type Atari game? And so what if he can't remember which tracker he was using at the time (they're all so similar anyway)?

Or he might be an evil ripping bastard. But there's just not much of a case there.
added on the 2009-08-08 14:05:55 by doomdoom doomdoom
I think you normally know very well what tools are / were using. And MadTracker is a newskool tracker. If he made it 20 years ago, he could still say that he used some popular 4 channel tracker or whatever.
Yes! Because he can't remember which tracker he used, he probably didn't use a tracker at all! You've cunningly trapped him in his own web of lies! Hahahahahahah! And not only that, now that we know he didn't use a tracker, this means that there's no way he could have ripped the bassline and added some drums and.. oh, wait.. that's what you're accusing him of, isn't it... hmm..
added on the 2009-08-08 14:36:51 by doomdoom doomdoom
doom wtf? Are you his secret lover or summat? :P

how about this:

It's got the exact sample, byte for byte.

It's got one whole channel that is that exact same instrument using that exact sample with 32 of the exact same notes.

So in fact it's worse, he raped a mod & passed it off as his own work something that fucks musicians off more than just thieving.
That exact sample, byte for byte, is a commonly used ST-xx sample. You can find a thousand mods with that exact sample, byte for byte, if you want. You'll have your hands full if you're going to run around accusing everyone who ever used ST-xx samples of ripping off each other.

As for the pattern of alternation between two octaves, are you going to accuse me next, since I've used that same pattern in several mods? And same for the chord progression. You might as well start throwing accusations around at people who use drum sequences like bassdrum-snare-bassdrum-snare. "ZOMG I'VE HEARD THIS BEFORE!"
added on the 2009-08-08 15:43:26 by doomdoom doomdoom
the original mod is like 5 patterns only anyway... "zap patterns" comes to mind.
added on the 2009-08-08 15:51:11 by Gargaj Gargaj
And I'd probably sound like a prick if I was subjected to this sort of accusation from people who fail at basic rational thinking. Either he:

A) Composed the module in a tracker (what he's saying)

B) Raped someone elses module in a tracker (what you're saying)

Whatever happened, it happened in a tracker. The fact that he can't remember what tracker he used to compose or rape the module doesn't make either option more likely.
added on the 2009-08-08 15:53:20 by doomdoom doomdoom
Well seems you picked the wrong guy doom. The module in question - the one he claimed was all his own work last night - well he's now claiming he didn't make the mod & it was his 'friend' who put it in there... & that he is very, very sorry & is going to compensate the Belgian mod composer for staling assets in a commercial release & the game is now no longer for sale until all assets can be verified as legal.
* stealing ot staling.

& my previous post - all 64 lines in the pattern are same sample/instrument or same byte size. You want to know the mathematical odds of that even when considering the common use of the sample? You're the coder, you work it out.
Also, his "friend" admitted that it's the booter.mod and that he just forgot it there....
added on the 2009-08-08 16:59:59 by ChrisTOS ChrisTOS
And the coder of this game, that took over seven years to complete, just said he didn't realise the title music was not written by himself, and that it's inclusion was an "accident".

I mean come on, at what point before production would you not think "Hey, thats not my music there!" - it's hardly believable, is it?
added on the 2009-08-08 17:33:08 by Tobermory Tobermory
Is it fuck.
So where is this Internet drama happening, because it's not happening in the original thread?
added on the 2009-08-08 17:44:39 by Preacher Preacher

"The Graphics Man" is the thieving coder of the game, and "GORF" is the truthless, confused musician.
added on the 2009-08-08 17:48:08 by Tobermory Tobermory
Comedy gold.
added on the 2009-08-08 17:58:36 by Preacher Preacher
Yep, not even a show of solidarity from them. Gorf admiting its ripped, and The Graphics Man coming back with a clear "fuck you, I did nothing wrong." - quite pathetic.
added on the 2009-08-08 18:02:24 by Tobermory Tobermory
The truly amazing thing is there's no barmy army piling in with ghey little putdowns... just the two of them standing there alone, probably feeling more & more isolated as the minutes pass. I'm sure a good old fashioned 'sorry, we'll make it right' would have been much more painless & left them with some credibility.
are you insinuating that credible individuals actually exist in the jag scene? :P
added on the 2009-08-08 18:16:27 by havoc havoc
That game really sux. That music too.
added on the 2009-08-08 18:40:39 by Dubmood Dubmood
You're not talking about random notes, but a bassline in a specific genre. Had it been a fairly unique bassline, or an unusual chord progression, or some clever use of samples and effect techniques, or really anything even remotely interesting musically, you'd have a point.

In this type of simplistic bassline you only have two different notes, and a repeating sequence with a length of eight. I.e. 256 options altogether, not the countless millions you're probably picturing. Of those 256, the one in question is one of the really common choices. That leaves the choice of chords. For the first note you have 12 options, but since we're in a tacky and cheesy context, there aren't a whole lot of different ways to progress from there. So with all the probably millions of mods out there in people's "unreleased" folders, yeah, chances are pretty good you'd find a couple with that exact track, using that exact sample.

The odds of one talentless composer following the same "how to make your first song" tutorial as another are too high to simply start throwing accusations around. Now, if he's owning up, then fine. But that doesn't change the fact that:

I love that when those people say "I believe" and obviously don't know what the tune was really made in!

are the words of someone who simply gets off on drama and isn't too much into figuring out exactly what people are guilty of. In fact you all seem a little too caught up in the moment to think about exactly what it is that's been "stolen" - a simple, cheesy bassline that Arpegiator doesn't really have a claim to anyway.

Just be sure never to remember that these people are computer enthusiasts not unlike most demosceners, probably a bit socially awkward and not good under pressure, but proud to have finally finished a project they worked on for seven years, getting some recognition from their peers for all that dedication to the Jaguar scene. They were even selling a few copies, looking at enough revenue there to justify up to 0.001% of the time they invested. Cause yeah, if you look at it that way, then even if they did mess up and deliberately steal a bassline from someone else, you sort of come off as giant douchebags anyway.
added on the 2009-08-08 19:01:41 by doomdoom doomdoom
doom, you'd be right if we weren't talking about the same people that carry the anti piracy flag to such an extend that equate it to murder and violent rape.

Those people argue against even the discussion of backing up one's cd collection and they end up plagiarising someone's else's work, not only depriving him of money but actually profiting in his expense (with their own admission).

And we are not talking about a few hundred euros. They probably sold around 150-300 copies with $40 of profit which gives about $6000-$12000. There are people here that make less than that in a year.

added on the 2009-08-08 20:56:52 by ChrisTOS ChrisTOS