category: general [glöplog]
This is all so fucking childish! The graphicians were mostly kids when they made stuff, and they made it for everyone to enjoy. Rule is, if you put something in a competition, it will be spread without limit, like it, or if you don't, then don't submit.

It will be even more childish if they came out now and said "OH NOES! HE SPOILED MY IMAGE BY PRINTING IT IN A BOOK WHICH A LOT OF SCENERS WILL HAVE ON HIS BOOKSHELF FOR NEXT XX YEARS! Sue Tomcat and all!"

Another aspect, illegal or not, if i am not mistaken, it is not a "crime", that is, the only things that can happen, the author can a) forbid printing, make you blacken it in printed samples. b) want some kind of compensation. Like "HEY! I have my part from your profit!" Oh, wait, Freax is a non-profit project, nothing to have here. Another one goes like "BUT i could have sold it better!!!"... Hey, really? That would be interesting to see. And why did you release it for free distribution in the first place? Anyway, until someone who actually posesses the rights, goes and sues Tomcat, the question of "legality" is non-existent. And if someone does, then... FUCKINGS to him.
added on the 2007-01-14 22:29:05 by eye eye
... What? :D
added on the 2007-01-15 07:20:51 by Reko Reko
I can't help thinking about why graphics artists don't seem to complain when their work is being displayed on various webpages? Well, either they do, or I've never heard of it... or they have been asked for permission first, which I very much doubt.

Seriously, come off your high horses. Copyright is not for the scene, whether it's actually the law or not. The scene was always a "free world", where you could play around with all your ideas, not worrying too much about violating rights or not.

If you release stuff in the scene, you better realise that your copyrights will be violated. So just be happy about the exposure that persons like Tomcat gives you. Hell, he even credited the artists and gave them a free book. What more do you want?

This is not a business. This is a playground.
Nutman: It's like this - I was really really happy to see two ÜD demos on one of the Demo or Die DVD's, but I would've been much happier if they would've dropped an email about it, even if not asking for consent. I mean, if it wasn't for sheer dumb luck, I never would've noticed otherwise...
added on the 2007-01-15 11:44:03 by Gargaj Gargaj
Gargaj: Heh, then you're not looking hard enough ;)
Word. It's not about high horses or anything. Read the thread. And honestly, you can never be too careful about copyrights. If you've never had to deal with the stuff, then you have no clue.

I do stuff for the scene for the fun of it. To me it's an integral part of even going to parties. If I'm at a party, I have something to release.

If someone wants to put that stuff out in the world (be it scene.org or whatever) they can, but they better represent it the way it's intended. People can download that stuff off scene.org and see it the way it's meant to, but once start converting it to other formats, you better make sure you're up to a notch.
added on the 2007-01-15 12:02:08 by Reko Reko
Well, people may mangle my works as they wish, until utter desolation - I wouldn't raise an eyebrow.

What I WOULD mind, however, is when people make money off my works without paying me or even asking me first.

But that's not the issue here.
That's just the point - some people would prefer being notified as such, without any intent to enforce copyright or any of the sort, simply for good manners, or to keep a watchful eye over the outcome.
added on the 2007-01-15 13:35:58 by Gargaj Gargaj
Gargaj, uh, sorry, i wasn't involved, but these were my neighbours doing Demo or Die, which was actually private stuff, thus actually no need to be announced, until it went up the internet, when it wasn't exactly new any longer, and one just wouldn't think "ah we forgot to do something". :) Yeah, BAD EXCUSE. Sorry.

As to "display as intended" - yes, the freax album could take more care of proportional print, perhaps of research as well, but if you look at the whole picture... Would you like
a) less printed matter, because a mistake cannot be corected
of b) all printed matter will be like that thin and dull katastro.fi only book. Perhaps every group should print its own 10-page introduction, so that there are definately no copyright and other issues to sort out? This would be rediculous.

How does that relate? It is pretty much apparent that Tomcat has slight trouble cooperating with people, yet he was the only one to raise such a big thing to date.

As to faithfulness of display: not many users who download original material would get to view it properly these days. This isn't an excuse to make it all wrong in a book, but i think someone should take it lighter.

Reko, as to you, yeah, i have read the thread and THEN posted my opinion. Anyway, the thread consists almost only of you, and the extrimist-terorrist ps. Insisting on your opinion again and again doesn't really make the point much stronger.

While my opinion is, that though ethics should be respected, the whole LAW discussion is misplaced, since - common sense - no RIGHTFUL complainant = no law enforcement. I have no right to complain that someone else's work was misrepresented. And if that one complainant shows up... he'll see what he gets from it. Really. He has released something to get respect from the sceners, and would he now like to loose it all, just to get some minor amount of money or to stop selling the book?
added on the 2007-01-17 05:57:39 by eye eye
And to avoid further trouble: Reko, i don't mean to call you a complainant, sínce you're not going to court or demanding money. We're having a fair discussion here.
added on the 2007-01-17 06:04:35 by eye eye
Once upon a time, there were computer magazines with CD s attached. These CDs often contained demo collections, or even complete partystuff collections.

Nobody, as far as I know, have ever complained at these magazines for including their demos in the collection, although they did not ask for any permission.

Nobody, as far as I know, has asked Silents whether Global Trash can be aired on MTV or not.

Nobody asked for any permission for promoting demos at computer conferences, as, for example, DOG or scene.org do.

Also nobody asked for Vallejo's permission to win The Party with his artwork.

For CSW's part, yes, I redirected everybody to them, because they are the distributors. I myself have given away copies personally, at parties and to Hungarian artists. As I read here, CSW treated everyone fairly, except in a few cases, but I guess they're not into "hey, don't reply this guy, b'coz his name is so funny, and he's French anyway." If you haven't received a reply from them, probably some glitch came up, which actually happens if you're running a worldwide distribution network. Not everything runs like a clockwork.

For my "slight trouble cooperating with people", well, I have trouble accepting whinings, that's all. This entire project would not exist without cooperation, and if I paid attention to every single tiny complaint. Everything looks so simple for an outsider...
added on the 2007-01-17 09:58:06 by tomcat tomcat
If you're thinking of getting this book, make sure your tolerance to bad English is high. :D
added on the 2007-01-18 00:05:35 by sardaukar sardaukar
ojuice and nectarine are way down in my books for what's up as per usual. What makes me wonder is why their so down all the time. -Patrick Groove

So, mr. Sardaukar, just WHAT are you bitching about in the Freax II volume? The one with the pictures. What 'Bad English' are you referring to?

Cuz I really wanna know (:

If you're referring to the first book, that bitching thread is somewhere else, and that's been explained. (Has to do with an preview done by an individual who was a PHD in English, but not one familiar with the concept of editing. They ARE separate skills.

Okkie welcomes Magic to Last Week!