Global Warming is a SCAM
category: general [glöplog]
Regardless of whether global warming is real or not (no idea what the propagandists on either side are saying, my eyes are saying it is but we'll know in 30 years), the choices are pretty simple:
Keep on as we are, consuming vast amounts of crap and breathing ever more crap in the air, or..
Clean up our act and environment, and have a better place to live. If some idiot kid can't have a 3rd TV and has to walk to school with some friends instead of sitting in a humvee playing games... well fucking good.
Keep on as we are, consuming vast amounts of crap and breathing ever more crap in the air, or..
Clean up our act and environment, and have a better place to live. If some idiot kid can't have a 3rd TV and has to walk to school with some friends instead of sitting in a humvee playing games... well fucking good.
Quote:
Hysteria makes us push for more climate- and environmentally friendly product
This movement was all ready set in motion. I don't think it is fair to tag it on the AGW hysteria which is pretty new. I cannot help to wonder. Is this a common method used on us by the powers be? whip up a hype and in the turmoil, try to force through whatever you wanted forced through. I think you are whitewashing dishonesty in the same manners as the Robin Hood paradox. Is Robins theft ok because he gives it away again, or it still theft? how about dishonesty? Do you really want a 'democracy' based on a mixture of hype and distortions.
Psonice. Global warming is very real. The climate heats up and cools down as it please, and both phases are a matter of fact. I think people should read Dooms posts because he really hits it on the heard with his comments in this thread.
What point is it you are trying to make exactly? You do not have the intelligence to participate in the debate, but still want to be part of it, is that it? Or perhaps you think caring about other things than your own navel is childish? Perhaps you just like the rush of being an asshole (and I certainly do not blame you for that, it is an awesome kick). So which is it?
Awww. c'mon Havoc, you are usually not shy for words. perhaps you are being a forum fascist? 'Thou shallt on this forum talk about only the things that Havoc approves of, which is compatible with his pathetic, narrow and entirely irrational world view'? Some kind of digital Aspergers? attention whoring? Give us something to work with here.
(no I'm not Havoc)
I think the world is as fscked up as it is because ppl forgot about modesty.
Our planet will probably not support our current state of hybris much longer.
This whole GW discussion is part of this problem but probably just one more instrument to divert us from the real problems.
The real question we must ask is: What is the goal of all this ? Maybe what Rowley meant was that it's pure existance. IMHO, it's not much more than this but not a bit less.
I also like what Krabob said, his Hippie analogy probably is just the exact opposite of the "money slave" analogy. The golden path in between is what we should be striving for.
Cheers ;)
I think the world is as fscked up as it is because ppl forgot about modesty.
Our planet will probably not support our current state of hybris much longer.
This whole GW discussion is part of this problem but probably just one more instrument to divert us from the real problems.
The real question we must ask is: What is the goal of all this ? Maybe what Rowley meant was that it's pure existance. IMHO, it's not much more than this but not a bit less.
I also like what Krabob said, his Hippie analogy probably is just the exact opposite of the "money slave" analogy. The golden path in between is what we should be striving for.
Cheers ;)
Whoa? I've no idea what thousand words Birkin's pic spoke, but I didn't hear'em. :P
eebliss: I'm not protecting a lie, if it is a lie. I'm saying there's no proof for a "Global Warming Scam", whereas there IS proof the Earth is in a bad way. Let's say it's a scam. Well, they're not actually proposing to lower the temperature with a very big fridge-cannon or alter the climate, they propose that we reduce pollution and lower energy consumption to previous generations' levels (when the Earth was in a less bad way) in the hope it will lower temperatures. You want to fight that movement just because you got pissed off by someone falsifying data? By some power-hungry politician?
Well, politicians use whatever they can to get them power, get public opinion behind them, get support from the right people to get their "right and well" decisions through. In the 50s it was the commie scare, in the 60s it was the consumption of products, in the 70s it was the drugs scare, 80s nukes, the 90s is a blank, and in the 00's it's security. Give us the power to spy on you, or we can't protect you from -insert random threat-
It's no wonder some of those jump on the "Climate" bandwagon, and others oppose them, both for the same reason. It's just what is protected that differs.
Your children or your wallet, your choice. You choose wallet just because some politicians have chosen yet another thing that the jaded public might actually care about, a new thing they can prey on to get power?
Oh. And by the way. You want the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH. One way to steer clear is to stop suckling on the sugary teet of the snippets of misinformation that is the mainstream media.
(Translation: most of us never know the truth until after the fact, truths have been reversed decades later as new research comes in anyway, nobody I know likes or wants the truth nor facts, years of research is presented as a few factoids in a paper or as a catchy soundbite in the news, nobody reads original research papers from trusted researchers, because they wouldn't want to have one of those truth moments when they realize the exact magnitude of just how badly everything has been fucked up. But I thought the above was shorter. And less depressing.)
eebliss: I'm not protecting a lie, if it is a lie. I'm saying there's no proof for a "Global Warming Scam", whereas there IS proof the Earth is in a bad way. Let's say it's a scam. Well, they're not actually proposing to lower the temperature with a very big fridge-cannon or alter the climate, they propose that we reduce pollution and lower energy consumption to previous generations' levels (when the Earth was in a less bad way) in the hope it will lower temperatures. You want to fight that movement just because you got pissed off by someone falsifying data? By some power-hungry politician?
Well, politicians use whatever they can to get them power, get public opinion behind them, get support from the right people to get their "right and well" decisions through. In the 50s it was the commie scare, in the 60s it was the consumption of products, in the 70s it was the drugs scare, 80s nukes, the 90s is a blank, and in the 00's it's security. Give us the power to spy on you, or we can't protect you from -insert random threat-
It's no wonder some of those jump on the "Climate" bandwagon, and others oppose them, both for the same reason. It's just what is protected that differs.
Your children or your wallet, your choice. You choose wallet just because some politicians have chosen yet another thing that the jaded public might actually care about, a new thing they can prey on to get power?
Oh. And by the way. You want the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH. One way to steer clear is to stop suckling on the sugary teet of the snippets of misinformation that is the mainstream media.
(Translation: most of us never know the truth until after the fact, truths have been reversed decades later as new research comes in anyway, nobody I know likes or wants the truth nor facts, years of research is presented as a few factoids in a paper or as a catchy soundbite in the news, nobody reads original research papers from trusted researchers, because they wouldn't want to have one of those truth moments when they realize the exact magnitude of just how badly everything has been fucked up. But I thought the above was shorter. And less depressing.)
from what I can see our world is ruled by power-hungry elites whose primary goal is to secure their wealth at the expense of the massive number of less-fortune ones.
but then again, I really am depressed ATM. :/
but then again, I really am depressed ATM. :/
I hear someone knocked out two teeth and cracked a lip on Berlusconi. So now he LOOKS like a bloody asshole too... there are pictures, if that will cheer you up temporarily.
violence never cheers me up. no sir.
look closely, not everything is what it seems to be.
look closely, not everything is what it seems to be.
Quote:
look closely, not everything is what it seems to be.
What do you mean?
that probably well-deserved round-house-kick-in-the-face probably did him more good than bad in the end (publicity-wise).
plus a lot of other reasons for that fairly general statement ;)
plus a lot of other reasons for that fairly general statement ;)
Quote:
I'm saying there's no proof for a "Global Warming Scam"
As long as people blankly refuses to look at the evidence because it goes against their eco religion or political world view, obviously. I mean I wouldn't be able see the sky if I did not look at it. '
Quote:
Well, politicians use whatever they can to get them power, get public opinion behind them, get support from the right people to get their "right and well" decisions through. In the 50s it was the commie scare, in the 60s it was the consumption of products, in the 70s it was the drugs scare, 80s nukes, the 90s is a blank, and in the 00's it's security. Give us the power to spy on you, or we can't protect you from -insert random threat-
well that makes it allright then. Certainly we should not fight this dishonest system at all fronts. What if we were inconvenienced?!!!
In my world a lie is a lie is a lie. There are no 'i stole a little',. you fucking stole or you did not steal. You told a lie or you did not tell a lie and no matter what good intentions you may have had for doing it, nothing good can come from something that starts on lies and deception. It only breeds more of itself.
Quote:
Oh. And by the way. You want the truth
No, fuck the truth. I want the facts! And it is because of the facts available that I now say "liar liar pants on fire!"
Quote:
nothing good can come from something that starts on lies and deception. It only breeds more of itself.
you nailed it. now who's gonna take the responsibility ?
Quote:
Quote:The difference is that I don't think it is a scam
then you believe so contrary to a growing mountain of evidence which you either do not care to look at, or refuse to look at.
Quote:
Quote:The difference is that I don't think it is a scam, so shouting and being indignant and angry and letting of steam because of it just seems downright stupid.
well that just fine and dandy then. at least there is some form of an opinion floating around in that void between your ears - which you didn't make clear with your initial snipe/comment in this post. the difference is, i'm not going to mock you for your unfounded belief. you can just get the hell on with happily paying your bogus taxes and stfu - for all i care.
You two have a very strange way of going about trying to "spread your message of enlightenment" - insulting everyone who doesn't immediately get on the barricades, and then COMMANDING everyone to take action on a issue that is far from black/white.
As I said initially: you're amusing. :) I always liked the "FUR IS MURDER!"-kind of argumentation, because it is so unbelivably arrogant and idiotic at the same time.
Carry on - I wouldn't want to spoil Okkie's good time. ;)
eebliss, I have news for you, you're deceived right now. By organizations UNRELATED to science.
Prove it's a lie then. IIRC, it was some forum geeks that came across a few scientists emails discussing to falsify some of the data to fit their view. "A few ... scientists lied about ...an aspect... of global warming ...in part... of the data ...in one paper (or conference or whatever it was)" kinda narrows it down from a world-view-changing revolution to "yawn", don't you think?
I think Jobe's translated spoof article on the motivation of those scientists to lie for centuries in a global conspiracy within a peer-reviewed professional branch which demands tons more of ALL its professionals, and where every single one has a chance to rise to stardom by pointing out flaws in others' research, puts it in the right light. Was a fun read, too :)
So you mean you, as conservative, will now go from ignoring facts as you have for decades, to hedging your bets? Excuse me, did something happen? "I better not support pro-environment/responsible companies or buy energy-efficient products, I might mess with the natural changes."
Nothing wrong with making irresponsible manufacturers pay fees to manufacturers of smart products, or to inform consumers of how much energy and pollution was needed to make a product before they buy, imo. If politicians in your country want to create new taxes instead, well, that's nothing I can do anything about, right?
There's room for all kinds of working solutions that will put the nads of the big culprits in the hands of those who don't want to strap on the smog filter whenever they go shopping. We should keep the tax stuff/"the workers will pay the bill" shit out of the discussion anyway. My tax is higher than your tax including gas and electricity prices, so quit whining.
Prove it's a lie then. IIRC, it was some forum geeks that came across a few scientists emails discussing to falsify some of the data to fit their view. "A few ... scientists lied about ...an aspect... of global warming ...in part... of the data ...in one paper (or conference or whatever it was)" kinda narrows it down from a world-view-changing revolution to "yawn", don't you think?
I think Jobe's translated spoof article on the motivation of those scientists to lie for centuries in a global conspiracy within a peer-reviewed professional branch which demands tons more of ALL its professionals, and where every single one has a chance to rise to stardom by pointing out flaws in others' research, puts it in the right light. Was a fun read, too :)
So you mean you, as conservative, will now go from ignoring facts as you have for decades, to hedging your bets? Excuse me, did something happen? "I better not support pro-environment/responsible companies or buy energy-efficient products, I might mess with the natural changes."
Nothing wrong with making irresponsible manufacturers pay fees to manufacturers of smart products, or to inform consumers of how much energy and pollution was needed to make a product before they buy, imo. If politicians in your country want to create new taxes instead, well, that's nothing I can do anything about, right?
There's room for all kinds of working solutions that will put the nads of the big culprits in the hands of those who don't want to strap on the smog filter whenever they go shopping. We should keep the tax stuff/"the workers will pay the bill" shit out of the discussion anyway. My tax is higher than your tax including gas and electricity prices, so quit whining.
Quote:
The e-mail most commonly cited by global warming skeptics, who have been largely bankrolled by oil and coal interests and have dubbed this matter "climategate," was one written by CRU head Phil Jones, who said, "I've just completed 'Mike's Nature trick' of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years ... to hide the decline." Claiming that Jones' statement demonstrates data manipulation is to take it completely out of context. The "trick" referred to in the e-mail is the matter of reconciling actual temperature recordings with tree ring growth, which is used to reconstruct temperatures from earlier periods. Wood density declined after 1960, making tree ring records after this time inaccurate, and that is the "decline" referred to in the e-mail, not a decline in temperatures. [...] This theft, and its response from climate change skeptics, only demonstrates the dysfunctional denial and short-sighted greed of the oil and coal companies, which make huge profits from products that are causing global warming and have no desire to change the way they do business.
http://www.examiner.com/x-1300-Detroit-National-Politics-Examiner~y2009m12d14-Climategate-is-much-ado-about-nothing
Quote:
Manche Kommentatoren sehen in dem schwer überschaubaren Mail-Sammelsurium - 63 Megabyte als komprimiertes Dateiarchiv - nun den ultimativen Beweis, dass der Mensch nicht an der Aufheizung seines Planeten Schuld ist. Und den Beweis dafür, dass Wissenschaftler diese Tatsache unter der Decke zu halten versuchen. Doch genau das Gegenteil dürfte der Fall sein. Denn nach erster Durchsicht scheint das - illegal beschaffte - Material keine großen argumentativen Sprengsätze zu enthalten. Das bestätigt SPIEGEL ONLINE auch ein Klimaforscher, der namentlich nicht genannt werden möchte. Zu emotional ist die Diskussion - da fürchtet mancher Wissenschaftler, jedes Statement könne falsch interpretiert werden. Was steht nun in den Mails? Da schreibt zum Beispiel Kevin Trenberth vom National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder (US-Bundesstaat Colorado), einer der führenden Autoren des vierten Fortschrittsbericht des Uno-Weltklimarates, es sei eine Schande, dass die Wissenschaft die derzeitige Pause der Erderwärmung nicht erklären könne. Und CRU-Chef Phil Jones schreibt in einer Mail davon, dass er einen "Trick" angewandt habe, um aus Baumringen gewonnene Datenreihen zu ergänzen. Interessanter ist da schon die Nachricht, in der Jones seinen Kollegen Mann im Mai 2008 auffordert, den Mailverkehr mit einem Kollegen zu löschen, in dem es um den vierten Fortschrittsbericht des Uno-Weltklimarates geht. Klimaskeptiker sehen darin einen Versuch, eine Freigabe der Informationen nach dem US-Informationsfreiheitsgesetz ("Freedom of Information Act", FOIA) zu torpedieren.
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/natur/0,1518,662938,00.html
Alright, to provide my humble point of view on "who" is responsible for
any major temperature changes on our planet in the first place:
I ...think ... there is a slight chance, this weird object of pagan admiration
could be the cause ... but I could be wrong in my assumption.
Let's shut it off and check out the effect ?! ;)
any major temperature changes on our planet in the first place:
I ...think ... there is a slight chance, this weird object of pagan admiration
could be the cause ... but I could be wrong in my assumption.
Let's shut it off and check out the effect ?! ;)
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18279-deniergate-turning-the-tables-on-climate-sceptics.html
Climate scepticism is moot. Anyone can find support for any crackpot theory by cherrypicking amongst a vast catalog of papers. The fact that climate sceptics all tend to refer to the same bunch of (in many cases, old and refuted) papers, with no reports or other more substantial arguments to support their claims, should be a hint as to who is stepping on thin ice in this matter.
Climate scepticism is moot. Anyone can find support for any crackpot theory by cherrypicking amongst a vast catalog of papers. The fact that climate sceptics all tend to refer to the same bunch of (in many cases, old and refuted) papers, with no reports or other more substantial arguments to support their claims, should be a hint as to who is stepping on thin ice in this matter.
its all lies! check out here
One of the funniest things concerning this is to watch, mostly conservative, people suddenly believing in all kind of big scams and conspiracies when earlier all those theories (on different subjects) were just tin foil capped hippies' hallucinations.