Future demo festivals: kill the "original release" rule

category: general [glöplog]
Hi there.

All demo festivals have an "original release" rule in their compo rules. This rule states that a production will be disqualified, if it has been submitted at a previous festival.

I believe that we must kill this rule.

Making Masagin has reminded me of my old dream: making movies for a living. Short movies, long movies, animated, real, anything that makes you want to go see it, no matter what kind of background you have: coder or housewife.

But I, and others like me, can not go this path within the demoscene, if I happen to strive for a career as a film maker. If I really want to get cracking, I'll have to try my luck at a short movie festival with my productions next time.

Why? Because film festivals do not have this "original release" rule. I can submit my movie to a lot of festivals over the course of a year, and make sure that my work gets the maximum exposure it deserves. Not only is it treated with dignity and respect, it has also a chance to collect more than a single prize - it has the chance to win all compos of this year.

This should be in the interest of festivals as well: how many parties left their audience in frustration, because they waited two days just to see three mediocre productions at the main event?

I have more requests, but I expect most of you to reject those ideas. In short, all of these requests would be targeted at opening demo festivals to the public, and pushing what we do into mainstream, so we can build careers upon it instead of living double lives.

I know, the demoscene has a reactionary history. But consider this fact seriously: the public wants us to be successful. If we don't come together with the rest of society, we lose our chance to influence the fortunes of the world.

added on the 2010-04-05 15:14:12 by paniq paniq
Why not releasing your entries first to a demo festival and then to some "relaxed rules" film festivals ?
added on the 2010-04-05 15:18:57 by RetroVM RetroVM
I support the rule that a demo should only be released at one party, because otherwise one prod entering multiple compos will push back other productions and don't allow them to have their acknowledgement by gaining first place.

But as a compromise: The rule should only refer to demo parties. If a prod has entered a festival outside demoscene it should still be allowed to enter a demo party compo. I think this would serve both sides, since the prod does advertise for demoscene outside the scene but still does not dominate the demoscene parties.
added on the 2010-04-05 15:32:50 by Salinga Salinga
Could a compromise be that a new category exists at parties where previous releases can be released again? Showcase compo? Would that be enough paniq?
added on the 2010-04-05 15:36:43 by auld auld
But then again: what does it say about a year of releases, if a single release dominates all parties? And as someone who is trying to make a killer release, won't you attempt to get them all instead of just one? Think of all the prizes you could get %)
added on the 2010-04-05 15:37:08 by paniq paniq
auld: I wouldn't call it showcase compo. But that's a start, yes. If the winners are treated with respect, of course.
added on the 2010-04-05 15:39:49 by paniq paniq
I remember a similar discussion about Assembly, how all submitted works are made public regardless of whether they got shown on the big screen or not. You're subsequently SOL trying to submit your entry in another party where the "original release" rule is pretty much standard. I'm not necessarily for getting rid of that rule altogether because it would potentially open the gates for flooding compos with productions that have already been successful in other parties and trampling original entries in the process. But allowing not-shown/disqualified/crashed/glitched/fixed productions a fair chance of competing again another day should be a no-brainer IMO.

As for already successfully competed productions (i.e. got on the actual size screen), demo shows at parties should be enough for everyone. Shows consisting of productions released at other parties over the past year would give them that exposure. And I know this isn't a very original idea but in practice, many demo shows I've seen consist of almost cliche classics.
added on the 2010-04-05 15:41:14 by raina raina
Well, as said you can always enter a demo compo first and then continue with the (short) film festivals. F.e. "Lifeforce" won Assembly first and Bitfilm second iirc.
added on the 2010-04-05 15:44:16 by tomaes tomaes
i agree wholeheartedly with paniqs request.

tomaes: if you enter a demoparty the production gets released and therefore becomes a spoiler to other (following) events.
added on the 2010-04-05 15:51:18 by giZMo^fr giZMo^fr
added on the 2010-04-05 15:51:43 by giZMo^fr giZMo^fr
yes, but the audiences for demoscene events and film festivals don't intersect. Heck, at each film festival the audience is different.
added on the 2010-04-05 15:55:34 by tomaes tomaes
also, future demoparty organizers: drop the restrictions on the game compo, please.

i believe designing a good game is a big challenge in its own and there is absolutely no need for a size-coding "addon", really.
added on the 2010-04-05 15:57:58 by giZMo^fr giZMo^fr
also, future demoparty organizers: drop the restrictions on the game compo, please.

i believe designing a good game is a big challenge in its own and there is absolutely no need for a size-coding "addon", really.

Indeed! I totally agree.
added on the 2010-04-05 15:59:12 by keops keops
Good idea. Maybe the typical demo entry size limit (64/128 MB) would be sufficient.
added on the 2010-04-05 16:04:07 by tomaes tomaes
added on the 2010-04-05 16:05:15 by IC IC
Agree with gizmo. We talked about this before.
added on the 2010-04-05 16:06:48 by paniq paniq
also, future demoparty organizers: drop the restrictions on the game compo, please.

i believe designing a good game is a big challenge in its own and there is absolutely no need for a size-coding "addon", really.

A few more MB would be nice, not too much also.
added on the 2010-04-05 16:35:43 by zeroshift zeroshift
Let's all go home, the demoscene is dead.
added on the 2010-04-05 16:52:42 by trc_wm trc_wm
I think it is not a terribly good idea, to put it mildly.

You go to a party to (amongst other things) be surprised by something new. To have your senses attacked by original productions, to see what is the level out there and how you can improve upon that. I wouldn't pay an entry fee to see fucking lifeforce and frameranger and whatnot again and again ad nauseum. Watching a *new* , original, unseen-before shitty demo is more interesting to me than watching debris for the 1000th time.

The little guy who brings his first prod to a party should be given a chance to make it to the stage to collect a prize, and this is pretty much the case today. But imagine a universe where the big guys scoop up *all* prizes and attention. Little guy thinks: what's the point. And leaves. Well done, your big egos just killed the scene you bastards :-).
added on the 2010-04-05 17:22:46 by Navis Navis
@Navis: The solution here could be, that you can put a demoscene production in contests of other festivals but not release it to the public (video/bins). So that the general public does see the demo during the demo party.

I think that's one of the main difference between commercial short films and demos: The public often has no access to a short film outside a theatre/DVD release, while demos are usually open to everone to see.
added on the 2010-04-05 17:34:48 by Salinga Salinga
Assembly has a 250MB limit for gamedev btw. I think it's a bit big, but quite okay. I'd still go for 96k though - just for the spirit :)

About re-releasing productions, I mostly agree with Navis - newbies need to feel like having a chance, otherwise there'll soon be no oldies.
added on the 2010-04-05 17:49:46 by msqrt msqrt
Salinga: The would scare off newbies even more.
added on the 2010-04-05 17:58:55 by Calexico Calexico
still don't see what is the problem of releasing your demo at BP and doing whatever you like with it at a film festival later on. Tell me this is not about the prizes from the different demo compos you can potentially win, is it?
added on the 2010-04-05 18:01:07 by Navis Navis
what navis said more or less sums up what i would also like to add. demoscene has its rules of function which have their reason why they exist within the scene, as they provide it's vitality in first place.

also, please stop trying to make demoscene fit into mainstream, as it is kind of degrading it's own purpose - as it is supposed to be (and always was) AHEAD of it, so if something needs to change to fit, it is the mainstream, NOT the demoscene :)
added on the 2010-04-05 18:01:20 by dominator dominator
i think even 10mb would already be too much for a game compo. but sure, 1-5mb would be a very nice number.