Someone need a music for his demo to release to the Main ?

category: music [glöplog]
the truth must be spoken out! :)
added on the 2010-09-14 14:54:43 by gentleman gentleman
I thought that music was an art (like painting).

If you put a fool in front of GARAGE BAND you'll have the same result than puting a fool in front of the RED SECTOR DEMOMAKER.

Assembling samples is not doing original music.
Just compare what is comparable.
added on the 2010-09-14 15:02:46 by gibs gibs
kaneel: maybe it's easier for a beginner to pick up, but the people with talent and real skills still stand out, don't worry :) Maybe one day code + gfx tools will be good enough to make us all artists + coders with a few clicks, I've certainly seen coding tools recently that are supposed to be purely drag + drop.

BB Image
added on the 2010-09-14 15:04:47 by psonice psonice
gibs : allez envoie . On verra ce qu'on peut faire avec ( c'est plus simple dans ce sens)
added on the 2010-09-14 15:05:28 by nytrik nytrik
Actually, it's about having fun in your bedroom and sharing your tunes with your demo mates. There are no "talent", only "dedication".
knl: those are the words of a man broken in spirit. You are not broken in spirit right?

And music can be art, but it usually isn't..
added on the 2010-09-14 15:10:20 by okkie okkie
J'suis au taf. mè yen a ki sont tro drol ici !
added on the 2010-09-14 15:11:37 by gibs gibs
gibs: What you should take away from this very interesting discussion is that, because there are so many musicians out there, demo makers will need the music (or a representative sample) up front to know if it's even worth the effort to contact you.

And because there are so many musicians that suck, it's statistically very likely that any demo person who contacts random musician X will have to explain to random musician X that his music is "not quite what we're looking for", and then get all evasive when musician X doesn't take the hint and replies with "how do you want me to change it?" It gets awkward and nobody wants that.

So the best thing you can do is present the world with a sample, then ask if anyone wants to use it. If the music is really good, psonice will marry you.
added on the 2010-09-14 15:22:05 by doomdoom doomdoom
kaneel: Nope, there's talent involved, definitely :)

In the past, I've spent a fair bit of time writing music (back in the mod days), and despite learning the ropes I can say I was crap at it. I've also done graphics, was useless at painting but reasonable with 3d. For 3d at least, I definitely had skills and dedication, but lacked talent.. I could make good looking stuff working from photos or whatever, but couldn't come close to some of the talented people.

But yeah, in all cases, plenty of fun in the bedroom with mates (in a totally non-sexual sense :)

Gibs: demo makers are a bit like garageband perhaps. Same with photoshop and filters. It's easy as piss to open photoshop, put some filters on a photo and call yourself an artist. People will usually recognise it of course, same with an OSDM or RSI demo or a garageband tune (well, if you just use a bunch of default loops).

Looking at more serious work though, I still think audio is easier to get started. Code is technically the hardest I guess, 3d is in the middle, pixelling is maybe easiest if you have some talent, otherwise hard.

That's my experience at least. I'll do a nice summary table with bullet points (powerpoint on request):

Music: Easy to start, lots to learn, needs talent to be good.
Pixelling: Needs talent to start :)
3d: fairly hard to start (maybe it's easier nowadays? not used any tools in a long while), needs talent to be good.
Code: hard to start, needs a certain aptitude or plenty of dedication.
added on the 2010-09-14 15:35:30 by psonice psonice
D☢☢M: I'm at work and I don't have a sample here.

Don't want to be married to psonice. The main criticism on bptv was about those demos showing effects from the 80'. And this is exactly what I have seen on the psonice homepage...
added on the 2010-09-14 15:39:20 by gibs gibs
haha, what?
added on the 2010-09-14 15:40:44 by okkie okkie
Huh? Guess you mean the '8808' music disk? That's supposed to have effects from '88 up to '08 :) What's that got to do with bptv?
added on the 2010-09-14 15:48:25 by psonice psonice
added on the 2010-09-14 15:48:37 by dv$ dv$
@psonice you never know how much time a scene musician really spend on his track unless it's a one hour compo but still, go ask xerxes (who was quite a hero at ohc) about his ohc routines. Go ask to all your friends about their habits and how did they get used to do this and that in that particular order and realize how many of them really break these habits at some point in order to restart from scratches. Plus, you never know who's been learning one or two instruments and take from these lessons as a main influence. Talent and dedication are pretty much the same thing.

I believe many musicians are liars and don't often tell people about the amount of efforts they've put into their songs.
oh and yes okkie, i'm a man broken in spirit. I want an okkiehug :(
What Doom said.

Also, keep in mind that music and demos are rarely created in isolation: even if your track is the best thing in the world, the chances that someone is working on a demo with no particular music in mind, then contacts you to find that your music suits it perfectly, are rather slim.

At risk of stating the obvious: have you considered entering the music compo at Main? I know it's not the same as having your music in a demo, but it's a way to get some exposure and establish yourself as a scener. (As I recall, at the Evoke prize ceremony Truck mentioned that someone entered their first ever track at the music compo there, and was immediately recruited to Brainstorm on the strength of that track.)
added on the 2010-09-14 16:09:29 by gasman gasman
kaneel: I know people put a ton of time and work into tunes, and I fully respect that. I'm going to have to disagree on talent though :)

Example: when I was young I had a friend. She hadn't played any musical instruments before, but she had a play with my piano. After maybe 30 minutes, she could play a tune from a tv show, without notes, and without any practicing, first time (one-finger style naturally :) Even after several years of daily practice and learning, I still can't do that as well as she could. That's talent right there, some people have it, some not.

Of course, if I dedicate myself to 'playing by ear', eventually I'll be really good at it. If she dedicated herself to that, she's always going to be 10 steps ahead of me. I think the very best artists have a lot of talent to begin with, but also have a ton of dedication and spend a ton of time honing their skills too.
added on the 2010-09-14 16:09:56 by psonice psonice
A friend of mine can do that, I can't.
He never wrote any tunes and he believes I have talent.
Some people believe I have talent, my girlfriend don't care about if I have talent or not but I don't believe I have talent and if you ask many sceners, I make crap...

I do call that a marketing world. Some people hate it, some people like it. But instead, they start talking like expert about it and say "this guy has talent".

By the way, back to ancient Greek time, "talent" was both a currency unit and a weight unit.
There's many different kinds of talent.

Ever see that disabled guy who can paint stuff from memory, with every single detail in the picture? That's serious talent, very few people can do that, and I think he was just born with that rather than practicing it. I'd say he was a bad artist though - great if you want a picture of a particular real scene, but we have photos for that these days. His work had pretty much zero depth from what I saw.

Maybe you're talented at writing tunes, but not that talented at playing by ear? With music, taste is always going to be an issue, but you have a good reputation from what I've heard.
added on the 2010-09-14 16:29:31 by psonice psonice
@psonice : it contradicts what you said earlier.
added on the 2010-09-14 16:30:45 by gibs gibs
From what i've heard, I have a good talent at making myself a good reputation. Oh wait, that would mean I believe in talent. Damn it. But I'll be pleased to have this discussion in real life with you someday... coz right now, we hijacked the thread :/

Anyway, to be back on the topic, as it's going further... @gibs: pouet.net != scene and scene != pouet as stated sometimes on the header of the website itself. I guess sending your tracks to people on irc would be a better idea than posting anything around here.
What do you mean? I didn't mention oldschool effects?
added on the 2010-09-14 16:35:28 by psonice psonice
@gasman, of course.

As I said I didn't knew there was a huge amount of music ready to fit in a demo.
added on the 2010-09-14 16:37:31 by gibs gibs
@psonice earlier you said that it need *one hour* to a fool to do a music.
added on the 2010-09-14 16:40:34 by gibs gibs
There's always the question of whether "inate talent" is truly inate or just appears to be inate while in fact it's just the product of a childhood stimulated in a particular way. If that's the case there's no real distinction between talent and skill, it's just a question of some people being more skilled in certain ways (and having a possibly insurmountable head start), even if the initial skill was acquired in a non-obvious way and isn't recognised as the kind of skill that it turns out to be.

So yes, if two people set out to become good at the same thing and are equally committed, the person with "talent" will have an edge. And often being ahead is motivating, while being behind is demotivating, which helps create this huge divide between skilled and less-skilled people. But I think translating that into "talented" and "untalented" is missing a few points.

The real question here is why would you own a piano if you suck at playing it? Pianos are bloody expensive and a pain to move about. And what's all this talk of one-finger-styling your mates in your bedroom?
added on the 2010-09-14 16:44:48 by doomdoom doomdoom