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TM2: Attack of the Ego Bots by Zymosis
screenshot added by ham on 2024-04-01 23:49:12
platform :
type :
release date : april 2024
release party : Revision 2024
compo : amiga demo
ranked : 8th
  • 41
  • 27
  • 44
popularity : 70%
 70%
  • -0.03
alltime top: #42204
added on the 2024-04-01 22:10:47 by hitchhikr hitchhikr

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Sorry but no.
sucks added on the 2024-04-01 22:28:00 by chavez chavez
Yeah, no.
sucks added on the 2024-04-01 22:33:38 by pyksy pyksy
I zoned out after 60 seconds. Too slow, a story that goes nowhere, and generic AI art.
sucks added on the 2024-04-01 23:02:35 by exocet exocet
Go, Toxic Modulo, go! :]
rulez added on the 2024-04-01 23:50:52 by ham ham
what is the demo? this was a slideshow of images that nobody created, so where was the demo in there
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 06:41:06 by vurpo vurpo
Sorry Charlie, but this was worth breaking the "never disqualified an Amiga prod yet" streak ;<

Regardless of this explicitly violating rules or not, this is the most boring use of AI art (which in itself is boring) in a demo I've seen yet
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 06:53:07 by lynn lynn
Terve Greippi! What a good idea to let Bifat help you!
Original idea this prod. Keep on making them!


Live compo recording here:
https://youtu.be/I1OQbnsQLhs?si=AUjqKDwCT-kV6oV7
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 09:07:20 by magic magic
I liked the artwork, to be honest, and the character designs, and how many hi-res/interlaced slideshows are there on vanilla A500 with copper augmentation for extra colours? I never even thought it was AI, I don't see how it IS AI, even the Revision presenters were fooled, but if AI is the way things are going for most aspects of human life, then (shrugs).
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 09:28:59 by Foebane72 Foebane72
it can help to use AI in a production (a screen, a sprite, ...) but maybe it's too much here
added on the 2024-04-02 10:01:46 by roudoudou roudoudou
lemme rephrase: fuck you
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 10:02:04 by post malone post malone
No to AI
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 10:07:52 by Kisu Kisu
Sad :(
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 10:14:25 by break break
Even my almost 70yo father recognized these images as AI generated :D

But: +1 the technical effort! And also +~0.3 for gfx since generating this kind of comic even with "ai" is still not just "pressing play". (much less effort than drawing the panels manually though) Haven't watched this again, but at the compo I was a bit bummed out because the comic didn't seem to have much substance to it.
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 11:03:42 by hot multimedia hot multimedia
The graphics mode is interesting, but unfortunately the presentation detracts too much from the overall experience to warrant a thumb.
added on the 2024-04-02 11:17:15 by grip grip
Nope
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 11:27:02 by JokerX JokerX
Remarkable amount of colors on screen, probably with some copper trick.
The idea is nice and I don't think an AI came up with it by itself. My I guess is that it was used "only" as labor force to develop the drawings. Given this circumstance I may tolerate its use, once.
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 12:03:44 by KONEY KONEY
It's a comic with an Amiga theme running on an Amiga and it succeeds in telling a story.
It's not particularly entertaining as a demo but some of the comments here appear rather narrow minded...
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 12:21:21 by hfr hfr
Stupid AI generated garbage
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 12:21:40 by okkie okkie
👍🏻 for the image codec. Really curious to read about that.
👎🏻 for making such a boring and uninteresting prod out of it 😟
added on the 2024-04-02 12:23:57 by p01 p01
Here's my thumb for the music and the code. It looks amazing, so colorful. I hope the next episode will have a faster pace.
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 12:25:03 by Soundy Soundy
p01: spatial ASN with table-encoded state machine, but I don't know what I'm talking about. soundy: faster pace can be achieved perhaps once we investigate some untrodden paths. come on people: counterthumbs!
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 12:28:51 by bifat bifat
lol bifat, you little bitch
added on the 2024-04-02 12:30:47 by okkie okkie
Looks great; I would like to know more about the display...HAM enhanced by copper palette changes maybe?
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 12:58:43 by peskanov peskanov
BIG NO, boring concept with crappy AI art
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 13:01:04 by Rork Rork
boring
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 13:03:02 by SiR SiR
Counterthumb for the concept + tech of fitting all these images on a single floppy disk. But I have to say it did not really work in the compo setting.
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 13:04:33 by edhellon edhellon
Ok, so a cool thing about the demoscene for me personally is seeing people hone their artistic and technical skills and presenting their projects to the community. AI generated art, in addition to all its social and ecological ramifications, completely disrupts that and makes every prod that uses it way less personal.

I do recognize your efforts in writing an image decompressor, that's an interesting thing to do! But the comic had the same style as a placeholder comic someone generated for a puzzle solving event I participated in - which is excusable there, but not in an art competition.
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 13:06:45 by mocoo mocoo
I wasn't going to comment on this, but explicitly asking for thumb-ups deserves a thumb-down :-) Would be interested in hearing about the codec, though.
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 13:10:54 by Sesse Sesse
This is fucking depressing.
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 13:51:00 by Frost Frost
Without name voting and "he is my friend", personally I will not spend my time to watch it... Would not neither keep it in my A500 demo collection.
added on the 2024-04-02 13:57:40 by sim sim
I don't care if the art was pixeled by Frank Miller himself, looking at the decompressor code on github would be more interesting than the entry.
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 14:02:26 by Preacher Preacher
Next time, compress some images worth looking at
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 14:14:25 by hornpipe2 hornpipe2
A superhero we didn't ask for, yet he crashed the party and invited himself in anyway.
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 14:31:43 by OlaHime OlaHime
nice technical achievement (i didn't even believed it was an OCS prod! would be cool to have a writeup to read), but the whole exceution was utterly boring :(
added on the 2024-04-02 14:34:22 by wbcbz7 wbcbz7
I didn't think I'd ever have to give a thumbs down on here but there's a first for everything I guess. This prod was boring, I'm not even going to elaborate, the elephant is in the room.
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 14:49:22 by RaccoonViolet RaccoonViolet
glöp
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 15:02:58 by DevEd DevEd
Counter thumb !? ...here we go...not...it was in fact too boring, and if a prod just triggered a may be usefull discussion, there's not much to a prod somehow...
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 15:29:40 by Kuemmel Kuemmel
Hm, didn’t realize this is AI. Just thought while watching who draws such a ridiculous amount of gfx and then present it in this quiet boring kind of way without movement of the panels or a music fitting the story.
added on the 2024-04-02 15:35:22 by gaspode gaspode
gaspode: Maybe it doesn't look like AI to you because your senses aren't numbed from techno stomps and virtue signalling, your head is at the right place, and you're looking at it from the right perspective :)
added on the 2024-04-02 15:52:45 by bifat bifat
Why the fuck even care making a demo when you can generate a video.
added on the 2024-04-02 16:03:52 by Frost Frost
frost, this demo has an anim player at its core running all the time in its own thread...
added on the 2024-04-02 16:07:45 by bifat bifat
@Bifat how come we missed eachother last weekend?

Good luck with this scenedrama going on! Hope u liked the live recording.
added on the 2024-04-02 16:11:31 by magic magic
@bifat: And why would I care? It's a waste of time to code something like an anim player when you can generate way cooler and more advanced animations. Get with the times. Coding virtually useless stuff for computers that only senile nerds with mid-stage alzheimers care about is stupid, when you can prompt some AI-generator to generate a really cool animation instead.
added on the 2024-04-02 16:17:02 by Frost Frost
frost, you are seriously spot-on with that question, and we need to think really hard to find an answer.
for kunsten maa vi evig vike!
added on the 2024-04-02 16:20:43 by bifat bifat
Thanks for making overall super shitty Amiga demo compo even shittier. Let the fucking 92s die already with OCS...
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 17:40:37 by AzzaroMWI AzzaroMWI
Nice
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 18:47:04 by Alex Menchi Alex Menchi
Genius! I love it. You did something new and good fun was generated. Massive thumb
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 18:47:31 by adkd adkd
I find it as a project to solve a technical problem (or achieve a goal) with help of a modern tool (AI gen.) and skill of a coder - to deliver a release to a certain deadline. From the initial idea to the final, released product - in a short time. All made for and fitted into limited specs of an obsolete hardware. As a spectator - I had fun. The gfx looked nice, it was something different and helped to extend the compo. And surely the production team had fun. Good job.
rulez added on the 2024-04-02 19:29:01 by sachy sachy
what p01 said
added on the 2024-04-02 20:01:26 by porocyon porocyon
as a slideshow type of production it was ok. a bit too slow paced. maybe being more honest about gen AI use would not have hurted
added on the 2024-04-02 20:16:04 by waffle waffle
It's the beginning of the end of demoscene to me. Demo should show your skills. Here you show that you can write some prompts and download jpgs.
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 21:08:22 by yami.five yami.five
If the compression is so good, why didn't you make a 64k intro instead?
added on the 2024-04-02 21:21:17 by fizzer fizzer
fizzer: interesting question! probably because only one or two sivut of that size would fit into 64k. but the story has nine plus title.
added on the 2024-04-02 21:26:29 by bifat bifat
On a beautiful summer day, Dikkie Dik and Okkie were playing together in the garden. Dikkie Dik happily ran after a butterfly, while Okkie was busy building a sand castle. Suddenly Okkie felt an urgent need to go to the toilet. He called to Dikkie Dik: "Dikkie Dik, I really need to go to the toilet!"

But just then Dikkie Dik tripped over a stone in the garden. He tumbled forward and landed with a thud right in front of the toilet door. Okkie looked shocked and shouted worriedly: "Dikkie Dik, are you okay?"

Dikkie Dik rubbed his snout and slowly stood up. "I think I'm okay, Okkie," he said with a sigh. "But I think I accidentally blocked the toilet door."

Okkie started laughing and said, "No problem, Dikkie Dik. Let's try to open the door together." Together they worked as a team and managed to open the toilet door. Okkie ran inside and breathed a sigh of relief.

Dikkie Dik looked on laughing and shouted through the door: "I'm glad you're on time, Okkie! Maybe I should be a little more careful with my butterfly hunt next time."

And so the day ended with laughter and adventure in Dikkie Dik and Okkie's garden, where even an unfortunate stumble could lead to a comical situation and a friendship that became stronger than ever before.
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 21:27:49 by havoc havoc
@yami.five enjoy the code which is left to show skills. as long as AIs don't replace that too. then the demoscene doesn't make any sense anymore, we all can leave for good and maybe we can then watch demoparties hosted by AIs for AIs.
added on the 2024-04-02 21:30:43 by neoman neoman
well im not going to jump on any band-wagon here and even thumbed it up but the story was kinda lame, sorry :/
piggie it is
added on the 2024-04-02 21:45:19 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
Yeah, if the story was the point then it was too boring.
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 22:03:37 by fizzer fizzer
Not enough downvotes yet.
sucks added on the 2024-04-02 22:30:49 by Krill Krill
"Absolutely mesmerizing! This Amiga demoscene prod crafted with AI is a testament to the boundless creativity and ingenuity within the community. The seamless fusion of cutting-edge technology with nostalgic charm truly transports viewers to a realm of awe-inspiring visuals and captivating audio. A remarkable achievement pushing the boundaries of what's possible on the Amiga platform!"
rulez added on the 2024-04-03 01:01:28 by reality404 reality404
meh. This was amusing during the compo, but the generic art-style had all the tell tale signs of genAI, making it a lot less interesting.
added on the 2024-04-03 01:18:52 by Zavie Zavie
The irony didn't escape me you know, the AI generated Jay Miner is holding an AI generated Macintosh II !
added on the 2024-04-03 01:37:56 by hitchhikr hitchhikr
You people are making us very happy. You would not believe the amount of work and effort we have spent in this. I almost had a breakdown in the middle - never had that before! Such minor details as recognising Jay Miner in the imagery (straight away, I hope), so important. And it's probably not by accident that it worked - first attempts failed... but we always spotted openings to get back to surfing on our luck plane.
added on the 2024-04-03 01:46:25 by bifat bifat
crap
sucks added on the 2024-04-03 01:58:49 by bitl bitl
Toxic Modulo #1 the origin story, for anyone interested. =)
added on the 2024-04-03 02:12:10 by Krill Krill
Best in compo. Big thumb!
rulez added on the 2024-04-03 11:40:25 by Emod Emod
Honestly, while watching the compo I have not noticed at all it was AI generated content.
I only thought there were transfer of old school comics.

Never mind, it was quite long and boring. I don't really know Amiga platform and cannot judge of the difficulty to store/show such amount of pictures. But even if this aspect is insane, it is not properly sold this way.

I'm looking for a next one with demo effects ;)
added on the 2024-04-03 11:58:42 by krusty krusty
The need for custom efficient image compression arose after the concept and material. It was not a hammer looking for a nail, or a novelty looking for a showcase vehicle.
added on the 2024-04-03 12:51:35 by Krill Krill
Really damn boring, and using AI crap sucks.

A shame, really, since with original art and better pacing this could have been an interesting showcase for the underlying technology, which I understood is somehow special.
sucks added on the 2024-04-03 13:09:40 by uncle-x uncle-x
%#&@§
sucks added on the 2024-04-03 18:44:34 by 4gentE 4gentE
Thank you all for sharing these beautiful moments of some cincere and thoughtful feedback!


Dear reader,



we encourage you to send us more fan mail to our regular address:

t (a) sm41 doet de

All fan mail and art is gladly accepted! Nowadays, your submit may be even a computer assisted art! Also conventional hand drawn pictures are very welcome. And in both cases, please hide your name and age into the page, if just possible.

If you need help for "digitizing" your paper back drawing, please ask a friend with a scanner or digital camera to help you.

Yours sincerely,

Director of TM Art Department,
Master Greippi
rulez added on the 2024-04-03 20:57:27 by Greippi Greippi
It looks like a bird... But it's not a bird. Really people, if this was a slideshow, do you really think it would not have been presented into the wild compo instead of the regular Amiga compo. There's much more behind this prod than just a codec, a decompressor, and random prompts into an AI generic tool... Blow on the surface to discover the diamond and the monumental work behind.
rulez added on the 2024-04-03 21:20:10 by ok3anos ok3anos
Master....? You call yourself master...
An arrogance, over confidence or what...
added on the 2024-04-03 21:30:57 by sim sim
Even if handpainted, this would have been rather boring and pointless.
Piggie
added on the 2024-04-03 21:39:11 by gopher gopher
Quote:
It looks like a bird... But it's not a bird. Really people, if this was a slideshow, do you really think it would not have been presented into the wild compo instead of the regular Amiga compo. There's much more behind this prod than just a codec, a decompressor, and random prompts into an AI generic tool... Blow on the surface to discover the diamond and the monumental work behind.

NGL, if you would've liked us to notice the artistry and honed skills in the implementation or whatnot, I would've honestly expected you to treat your own work with respect instead of using the sweatshop labor laundering torment nexus
added on the 2024-04-03 21:52:44 by porocyon porocyon
Porocyon: I fail to see the relevance of the link you have provided. If you want to suggest a relation between sexual abuse in Kenyan sweat shops and Toxic Modulo 2, then please be specific about it. Consider the possibility of opening a new thread.
added on the 2024-04-03 22:10:22 by bifat bifat
The compression tech is quite impressive. Too bad instead of trying to find a proper artist y'all went with AI generated garbage. Some music could've helped too.

Piggy because it looks like a lot of effort went into coding the image decompression tech, but then wasting it on AI generated stuff.
added on the 2024-04-03 22:16:10 by isocosa isocosa
Once again: The compression was an afterthought ushered in when it became necessary, not the reason why this production exists. It was 2 dudes hailing from C-64 world helping out 2 dudes on Amiga OCS.
added on the 2024-04-03 22:18:43 by Krill Krill
isocosa: In which configuration you had no music? Music is supposed to be there.
added on the 2024-04-03 22:19:42 by bifat bifat
Quote:
NGL, if you would've liked us to notice the artistry and honed skills in the implementation or whatnot, I would've honestly expected you to treat your own work with respect instead of using the sweatshop labor laundering torment nexus


This is my personnal comment and feeling about this production, and I was not at all involved in it. I've just followed the making of it from afar. That being said, I don't really understand your point. This is another debate and I do not condone slavery if this is what you mean. If I understand well your purpose it would be as if you would blame a prod for the coder or graphic artist wearing clothes made by kids in bangladesh or india.
added on the 2024-04-03 22:44:22 by ok3anos ok3anos
I have a policy of upvoting every prod with strong/new code that I get around to reviewing. New compression codec on an OCS Amiga? Huge thumbs up.

I also like upvoting code that is not readily available for scener copypasta or that has been discussed to death for literally 2-3 decades. A majority of prods do incremental improvements on well known effects that you can not only nowadays easily find how-to tutorials, but also get full BSD/PD source code on GitHub for the platform of your choice.

Nowadays, PMC's Alpha and Omega, Cryptoburner's The Hunt for 7th October or Sim Production's Speed would probably get downvoted to death. Oh animation, oh why so long blah blah.

The scene crowd used to be different at the time, with a lot more people closer to the platform and understanding how hard something is to get working right on a stock Amiga 500.
rulez added on the 2024-04-04 08:37:38 by zajc zajc
It felt a bit sneaky to not explicitly said it was made with AI in slide description or in credit. I think it's fine to try things but hiding something like this feels weird
added on the 2024-04-04 10:08:49 by ponk ponk
Hiding AI usage? Pretty sure the usual give-aways were deliberately left in.
added on the 2024-04-04 10:20:23 by Krill Krill
It's probably not my cup of tea and I don't want to enter the subject of AI, I will just give a thumb for the bold and unusual concept and for the amount of great that was needed here.
For me, the Amiga is a great but very hard machine to code on, so I can imagine how it was difficult to be able to display all this data in full colors on the screen.

Also, I'm happy to see Krill doing things on Amiga :)
rulez added on the 2024-04-04 11:14:01 by rez rez
Quote:
...for the amount of great CODE that was needed here...
I wanted to say 🥲🙈
added on the 2024-04-04 11:16:01 by rez rez
Hey all.

My involvement with this production basically came down some discussions on IRC, receiving a couple of raw dumps of test data, and sending a Python prototype codec. First I saw of the full production was watching the stream 6am Perth time on Monday :)


Heavily paraphrased IRC logs, starting from back in early February:


<krill> Is the stuff you wrote for bitpickler* adaptable for amiga? I've got some files that are too big.
<me> Send me a .bin, I'll have a play..

(* bitpickler is a cruncher I wrote for c64 4k demos, using a magic multiply-free tANS implementation and mixed context models)


(Some time later - 4 bit values, ok. ...attempt to get a feel for the data characteristics by shaping it into a rectangle with an arbitrary stride and displaying it with matplotlib.. "ooh, this looks like it's a 640x480 image. I don't have the right palette, but it's probably.. some kind of comic, in a city?? Ok, I'll try and use context from last pixel or two, and maybe a pixel from the previous line. Oh, and a symbol to help with those big blank areas")

<me> Ok, I can get it down to X bytes, about 50% of original - *much* smaller than you'd get from gzip or PNG. But the decruncher is pretty slow. Here are a couple of prototypes in Python, one's a slightly better ratio for 3x the work (context mixing), so the other's probably a better fit.

<krill> Size (from faster one) is great! Imma port the decruncher to C.
....
<krill> Ok, it's fast to decrunch on big computer.. but takes about 2m20s on A500.
<krill> Seems like I'll need to port C to asm now and optimise the shit out of that
...
(Insert some back and forth like Krill asking me if I can cut down the required shifts, because they're hella expensive on 68000, and me doing what little I could manage on that count, me trying some codec changes that didn't end up making the cut, etc. But mostly Krill optimising like hell while I buried myself in $dayjob)
...
<krill> Alright, it's down to 13.75 seconds now.
<me> Holy shit, nice work!
...
<krill> Hi! For credits and such, how to bill you?
(me, thinking - sweet! first amiga credit!)


Some days later
(me on discord, watching the live stream):
[6:02 AM] ChristopherJam: ahahaha this is what i get for not vetting the content before agreeing to a colab…

In hindsight I'd have probably requested we explicitly acknowledge the use of generative AI? Personally I'm mostly not a huge fan because most of them source their training data unethically. Beyond that it's just a tool - and it's not like I credit Vim, VICE, Photoshop, Python, Rust, ca65, etc when I do c64 demos.

But like, mostly I release standalone crunchers, and what people use them for is their business really.

and, MAD PROPS TO KRILL for getting a 10x speedup over the C version of the decruncher :D

-cjam
i don't really care about the tech or the ai stuff here. the comic is bad and the demo is boring. successful troll
sucks added on the 2024-04-04 12:27:15 by ricky martin ricky martin
- We did not try to troll
- We did it for the art (really)
- I found Toxic Modulo #1 such a good idea that I wanted to see this in proper form
- We found out that previous tech did not cut it because it was optimized for photo material.
- Asked Krill, Krill asked CJam. Hi CJam!
- Part of the idea is to demonstrate how AI can be put to good use artistically
- AI is somewhere in the middle of the process, and just a tool. It could have been left out entirely, resulting in a comic of black & white outlines. But the idea here is to have a colorful comic.
- We were wondering what should be credited: AKlang, Wave Manuel, Gimp, Lua, Python, vasm, ...
- I said: If we credit Gimp and Lua, we can also credit Richard Stallman and next the Dalai Lama
- Revision was the next party
- I feared nobody would notice and it would go under in total indifference
- We said, let's try this. It's artistic and technical enough to pass as a demo
- Huge success! \o/ Collected innumerous of the thumbs that are so hard to get :D
added on the 2024-04-04 12:57:49 by bifat bifat
I've been following the comments here since the release and it's almost breaking my heart. In 10 - 15 years the Amiga demo scene will probably be completely extinct. Until then, I'll be happy about every new Amiga production. Especially when people explore new ideas. This was done here. Thanks for that!
rulez added on the 2024-04-04 13:09:05 by Depeche Depeche
There's a lot of chat about this, so I lost some seconds in my life (I played it fast and not to the end) watching it.
sucks added on the 2024-04-04 13:15:15 by baah baah
Hi bifat, nice to meet you!

Thanks Depeche 💜
I liked the effort of this, I mean, I like reading comics as slideshows, and the image packer was really well coded. But, regardless if that was AI or not, I had an hard time in staying focused in watching it while it was shown. So, for me that's a piggie.
added on the 2024-04-04 13:30:46 by SoDa7 SoDa7
What Depeche and Rez said.
rulez added on the 2024-04-04 13:32:11 by Tom Tom
To give away more of the process details, I'm glad to announce that:


- For Toxic Modulo 1 & 2, about 300-400 prompts were done.

- I never used full resolution downloads, because they're way too expensive
(money-wisely and perhaps environment wisely).

- All was build by using previews of size about 700x700 pixels.

- I used screen capture and had to cut all images loose. Usually I ended up
combining several images of same or similar type.

- There is a full hand drawn (pencil) sketch of all pages. The physical tools were part if this production!

- On average, the prompt produces totally irrelevant pieces. This is dangerous in the sense, that you might end up fixing the image with GIMP for more than 2 hours. You need to clear up a lot of things. This is also a little addition for the packing algorithm. By removing noise and "conceptual noise" the images could compress even better.

- In worst case scenario I fixed one single image manually for over 4 hours. It really sucks, when you know that the feedback from the scene might get rather "negative".

- I have about 500 files in the TM2 folder. There are about 10 steps for each page (TM2 has 10 pages, about 36 images).

- One image source is actually taken from Stellar's intro Bananamen.

- I am Master of Arts (graduated 19 years ago). I know a lot about art and being an artist. Often, it really sucks. You basically always work without any pay ;) It is a life-style, not a profession.

- All in All some 100h of GFX work was required. In about the same time ... with color crayons or such... I would have achieved the same story in different way. Possibly better!

- So, largely, it was a successful experiment.

Greippi, Master of (F)Arts!



Ps. This is huge! Keep fan art coming!

Pps. Those who didn't like the story itself... Relax. More is coming! You can't get it all yet.
added on the 2024-04-04 16:16:02 by Greippi Greippi
Thinking... Hum...
Some dudes spent (a lot of) time on coding it...
The other spent deliberately theirs on drawing/modelling the gfx...

Life has it that not all the results are critically accepted, acclaimed.

I wrote I would not have it in my A500 collection. That's true, cause it is not my cup. And - tbh - I am already (sic!) kinda tired of that AI close-to-perfect images not mentionning that I do not like too much all the "super-heros" stuff.

BUT! What is important - imo - is that the dudes spent (a lot of) time on it. That's really important. Easier to bash then to sit down on the a** and do something productive. And not to cancel (as Bifat said here in on of his comments). I respect it a lot and thanks goodness there still are productive and scene-oriented working dudes!!!

Back in the days we had many nice and many not-too-great demos. The difference is that the authors did not know (immediately) what the others were thinking about it and were still producing the stuff. I think that was good, since the process of creation alone is very important. No metter if the result is (according to the audience) great or not so much...

From the other point of view, psychologically speaking as well, it is very interesting (to me) to see the comments.
added on the 2024-04-04 16:39:38 by sim sim
(...)Krill getting a 10x speedup over the C version of the decruncher(...)
Really... That's really nice and interesting!!!
Congrats!
added on the 2024-04-04 16:43:07 by sim sim
Oh! One more thing:

Using crayons I could have kept and sold the originals after 20 years...

That is an idea!

So maybe the critic was not entirely lost here.
added on the 2024-04-04 17:00:01 by Greippi Greippi
interesting encoding and crunching! too bad about the overshadowing remainder, really takes the wind out of those sails.
sucks added on the 2024-04-04 17:08:26 by shiz shiz
@Greippi
Hahaha! Do keep the pencils and crayons;). Well, if you do not use them for other future projects...
I personally keep some of my old sketches (and tools). They bring me nice memories =).
added on the 2024-04-04 17:09:03 by sim sim
I didn't think the story was too bad. Okay, a bit more action would have been good.

At least this production has fueled the discussion about artificial intelligence. And that alone is worth a lot. Yes, it should have been written right at the beginning that nobody created the images themselves. Otherwise, I'd say it's an interesting idea.
added on the 2024-04-04 18:12:16 by ghandy ghandy
I found it way too long and boring. And regarding the use of AI art, not sure I find it less creative than all the ripped art in Batman Rises, probably actually more creative. Not that I like either one.
added on the 2024-04-04 19:50:02 by java java
meh
rulez added on the 2024-04-04 20:00:52 by Mystra Mystra
so if this is in your eyes a successful experiment how to incorporate AI tech to help you craft the artwork here (I read how much time and energy you spent on that) in a reasonable and balanced way be more transparent and open about it next time and show what’s possible without the subliminal trolling or being „ahead of the pack“.
rulez added on the 2024-04-04 21:28:04 by neoman neoman
Even if we completely ignore how the artwork was made, this is a slideshow. One that progressively reveals itself in sections, but still a slideshow. As such, it belonged in the wild compo rather than the demo compo, IMO.

Transferring AI-generated graphics onto a machine with a limited palette and resolution is really no better than scanning them from a printed source. Dithering, noise, and other artifacts stand out too easily. It really ruined the "made on Amiga" experience for me, leaving only the technical feat of compressing images onto one floppy disk, which wasn't enough.
sucks added on the 2024-04-04 23:17:27 by phoenix phoenix
In Toxic Modulo 3 there should be a new superhero with bifat's face. Then you can build a Toxic League of Superheros
rulez added on the 2024-04-05 12:45:05 by mop mop
A little bit slow for my taste but a good production with lots of effort behind it, so nice work!
rulez added on the 2024-04-05 13:57:58 by iolo iolo
Some nice and novel tech, presented in a aesthetically pleasing way.

And if I'm totally honest, I couldn't give a flying fuck if it uses AI!
rulez added on the 2024-04-05 14:14:24 by DanLemon DanLemon
I can respect the technical aspect of the prod, but it was still boring as hell
added on the 2024-04-05 14:19:59 by britelite britelite
@mop:
I'm afraid bifat prefer the Schizoid Master. He could foresee a lot of things during the process ;) ... If he's really concentrated on something, you can just see the clocks ticking all around.

@DanLemon: Yeah. What the heck. It's just Amiga, all right! (ps. we forgot to exchange emails)

@britelite: Ok. Fair enough. Actually, my hunch is that keeping you bored is not terribly hard. The last picture was supposed to wake you up. But as always, on a demo or a intro, you need to play with the customized average flow.

In this AI-worsens-our-lives-for-good frenzy there was some fresh ideas. One would be to put much more images into just 64K ... Not bad..

Ps. Everybody! Keep the fan mail coming. And, not too many at a time! We don't want to kill mailman, do we?

Here's our solid address:

( t (a) sm41 doet de )
added on the 2024-04-05 17:53:59 by Greippi Greippi
I think this is pretty cool and one of the first full comics books I've seen made with AI art! The images aren't unrelated but a consistent characters and story.

As a demo it is taking a lot of flack because there are not many effects, it's mostly just a series of still images. Still it's a successful experiment and cool art, congrats!
AI art is theft. Telling me that "300-400 prompts were used" isn't impressive. To me it just sounds like you're saying "I robbed 30-40 banks." Yeah, okay, so you did. But that's a horrible thing to do, and a horrible thing to brag about. If this is the future of the demoscene, I guess it's been a good run, but we'll have to say goodbye.
sucks added on the 2024-04-06 21:37:30 by Arkholt Arkholt
What a pathetic exhibitionist stunt with that fanmail “joke”. Like little, thumbsized old men screaming “Look at me! Look at me!” It’s so dumb that the cringemeter might blow.
added on the 2024-04-06 23:26:22 by 4gentE 4gentE
Thank you 4gentE for unloading your feelings here where it hurts and where it's not so quickly forgotten. It may seem as if we were playing on triggerpoints like on a claviature, but I can assure you there is no evil intent.
added on the 2024-04-06 23:39:03 by bifat bifat
I think this is really interesting to try new things. This must be real hard work. Keep it up.
rulez added on the 2024-04-07 06:58:55 by sLASH_1 sLASH_1
“Look at me! Look at me!”
added on the 2024-04-07 19:06:23 by Greippi Greippi
I'm writing a making of article where I reveal more of my thoughts. The process had several surprises on the way. I understand that this flame war interests everyone who wants some attention easily.

Hereby, I quit writing here.

Fan mail still accepted.
added on the 2024-04-07 19:09:21 by Greippi Greippi
AI "artwork" :(
added on the 2024-04-07 19:27:44 by keops keops
Nice consistency between images - this is usually hard to achieve with AI tools.
Nothing wrong with the prod overall,just tbh should be in "wild compo" category.
rulez added on the 2024-04-08 14:46:46 by tomkh tomkh
"It's artistic and technical enough to pass as a demo". Really, the machine is quite maxed out and there are a few technical innovations in there. It's certainly not just a slideshow (if only because of on-the-fly bubble and text rendering), and nothing in its style contradicts it being demo-ish (nor the party's compo rules). Except maybe people's expectations of the default demo style, which may be challenged now and again.
added on the 2024-04-08 15:08:40 by Krill Krill
I liked it.
rulez added on the 2024-04-08 18:43:20 by MadAxe MadAxe
https://demozoo.org/productions/342438/info/24378/

Here is the making of. Also hand drawn sketch was added to the previews.
added on the 2024-04-08 18:58:20 by Greippi Greippi
Good job :)
rulez added on the 2024-04-08 19:07:10 by nfreak nfreak
Great work !
rulez added on the 2024-04-08 19:09:34 by troubleman troubleman
Perhaps AI can help you post a link. ;-)
added on the 2024-04-09 13:41:13 by 4gentE 4gentE
No, just no.
sucks added on the 2024-04-10 00:12:32 by Dozer Dozer
Yes, just yes.
rulez added on the 2024-04-10 02:20:33 by bodo^rab bodo^rab
total merde
sucks added on the 2024-04-10 10:30:20 by Dubmood Dubmood
Yawn
sucks added on the 2024-04-11 03:54:54 by Negostrike Negostrike
Next time do a good old C64 scroll text world record, but with ChatGPT!
added on the 2024-04-11 11:34:19 by kb_ kb_
I refuse to thumb this down, because I respect the people involved for their coding skill.

I disagree with bifat on AI and copyright tho
rulez added on the 2024-04-11 14:39:02 by NR4 NR4
Christ, people, give Greippi a break! He's gone to the trouble of showing you his preliminary sketches for the comic strip and you're STILL giving him GRIEF!
added on the 2024-04-11 20:18:33 by Foebane72 Foebane72
Thankfully this entire prod is low effort spam, so that I can thumb it down without my motivations being questioned.

Why a team of 4? Grab a loader, make a PC script and the team is 0 - yes, including the music, uncredited one.

p.s. Make sure that the bot uploads it everywhere, too. You wouldn't want preservation site workers doing robot labor! It would decrease the spam potential!

I.e. My main criticism of this joke experiment is that it too inefficiently shows how to eliminate human contribution to our subculture. ;)

For a normal, non-toxic, non-attentionwhore egocentric demo, I would only ask normal questions, like: Who wrote the effects, who drew the pictures, and who composed the music. ;)
sucks added on the 2024-04-11 22:07:41 by Photon Photon
"I wish you could see what I have seen with your eyes"
added on the 2024-04-12 10:51:26 by Greippi Greippi
Photon trolling 7/10, hurts good! kb 4/10
added on the 2024-04-12 11:39:52 by bifat bifat
I guess that most of the anger comes from the fact the use of AI was not clearly stated. I agree that was a mistake, but clearly not an intention to cheat. Ok, everyone would have preferred actual graphics done by actual humans. Me too. Ok, the pace is slow. Fine, get over it, try not to be binary, and see if this prod is 100% laziness or if there's something good about it. There's an obvious effort and achievement in the code, and some of the jokes are cool (I remember the crowd laughing at Revision). At least, please acknowledge the effort and the skills involved. You're still free to dislike the end result.
added on the 2024-04-12 12:08:00 by Soundy Soundy
Imho, it's quite perfectly paced for what it is: a demo - so no user interaction (by default).

Imagine it'd have hurried through the panels like mad, giving the watcher no time to read and take it all in.

Animated panels (or proper lettering) would have been nice, but there was no time for that. We ran into the dreaded party-coding scenario even. =)
added on the 2024-04-12 12:19:49 by Krill Krill
I personally wouldn't like this prod better if no AI was used. Perhaps I'm not the only one. Authors seem to insinuate that this prod got rated worse ONLY because of AI usage.
added on the 2024-04-12 12:19:57 by 4gentE 4gentE
Nonsense.
added on the 2024-04-12 12:22:34 by Krill Krill
Quite unusual prod. Like the other ones from Greippi. He always brings some weirdness to the scene, which is good.
rulez added on the 2024-04-12 12:34:57 by Virgill Virgill
Quote:
or proper lettering

Krill, thank you, oh thank you, thank you.

Could you please elaborate - for me and the assembled crowd of barbarians here - on what you deem improper about the text setting?

Lack of kerning? Subpixel? Not enough midtones?

We are not blitting bobs around here like a vectorball routine.

I said in the middle of the process that I think it would be nice to have character variants,
with the case in point: the case of capital and small I.
This is where this matters, elsewhere not so much.

And because this idea didn't make it into the product, now this is somehow not proper?
added on the 2024-04-12 13:12:15 by bifat bifat
This demo has more pace than many C64 prods I've seen! But really the thumb is for the amount of `content' on both the demo and pouet ;)
rulez added on the 2024-04-12 13:14:45 by spkr spkr
@bifat I merely meant different variants of the same letter (not only the "I" crossbar vs pipe). Sorry for using the wrong word, didn't want to imply it's "improper" as it is now. 'Tis just fine! =)
added on the 2024-04-12 13:18:54 by Krill Krill
genuinely makes me not want to attend parties or participate in the scene anymore
sucks added on the 2024-04-12 13:56:31 by noby noby
ok
added on the 2024-04-12 16:03:55 by Frequent Frequent
Here is a thumb for the scene drama this production has produced. Perhaps the scene is not dead after all ;-).
rulez added on the 2024-04-12 16:11:49 by 4pLaY 4pLaY
IT was just some first-aid. The real cure is up-to you.

"YOU DE-HUMANISED THE PHONE SYSTEM in 60's!!"
added on the 2024-04-12 18:28:47 by Greippi Greippi
what noby said. at least stuff like this makes the ship sink faster.
sucks added on the 2024-04-12 18:46:09 by sensenstahl sensenstahl
I wasn't at the party place but on the stream this comic was hard to enjoy. Maybe it was a different experience live, a whole crowd holding their breath together while waiting the page to turn, but at home I never read comics without having full control over pacing.

I also have to admit my eyes instantly gloss over anything resembling "AI generated content" but it's not the biggest problem with this production.

An idea: a demo as a comic instead?
added on the 2024-04-12 21:13:31 by cce cce
@ noby, sensenstahl

you both know, you can't blame us for bad feelings if you had some. TM2 is just a production. And it was better to have 12 demos instead of 11.

You guys are trying to put us down, why is that?
added on the 2024-04-13 09:13:31 by Greippi Greippi
@cce ... the follow up won't be in demo compo. I also think TM2 is slow paced. It's a sort of a comic album simulation.
added on the 2024-04-13 09:16:31 by Greippi Greippi
@Greippi: I am not the biggest fan of AI in art. Sure you guys made a prod and submitted it to a major party letting your pants fall so to speak. But that are no reasons for me to like the prod (or pigg it for that matter). You had your reasons to make it and I have mine to thumb it down. A voting has most of the time nothing to do with the persons behind it, just like in this one. I am not trying to put down anyone. For what? And you simply can't have not taken in account that this prod will bring such reactions ( okay, that depends on the amount of beers you guys had before the deadline tho :D )
Downthumbs in themselves are all fine and dandy. It's the butthurt that came rather unexpectedly. :)
added on the 2024-04-13 10:14:58 by Krill Krill
I was just wondering in how far an Amiga slideshow keeps you from making stuff on the platforms of your choice.
Noby doesn't want to go to parties and participate in demoscene anymore - because of said production. Sensenstahl agrees. Weird, but glad if we could help with your problems.
Maybe AI was so obvious to us that we lost track of how obvious it was to some. Of course some didn't notice it, because it was so well made! But that would be fun also, so thumb it down for cheating or whatever reasons, or up, or not, or whatever. But quitting? Is this the maximum penalty? :-)
IIRC there was moderate applause at the party and even the ranking was in line with our expectations. So what happened after that, in some internet circles? Just a theory: I think a better recommendation than quitting demoscene would be to quit self-reinforcing circles of groupthink. :-)
Demoscene is so much fun if you look at it in the right way. :-)
added on the 2024-04-13 10:54:04 by bifat bifat
You’re growling at anyone that doesn’t like your prod. I’ve rarely seen such behaviour. What’s wrong with you guys? Do you want this to stay relevant for as much as possible? Is that it? A performance? I already said that I personally don’t dislike this prod simply because of AI usage, there’s a lot else. A lot. To this, Krill literally wrote “nonsence”. Then more people chime in. And here you go again. And Krill mentions “butthurt”. Not everyone that doesn’t like your prod is butthurt. I’d say you’re the butthurt one. Stop “shouting” people that don’t agree with your point of view (which is at that weird I must add) down. You sound like religious fanatics. Did it ever occur to you that the prod is perhaps just plain bad? “…so well made…” - what can one reply to that. You seem to genuinly think that. If you genuinely want this to stop, perhaps just try and stop growling at people.
added on the 2024-04-13 11:36:40 by 4gentE 4gentE
See? :)
added on the 2024-04-13 11:44:22 by Krill Krill
4gentE, it poses the question of why someone would be quitting the scene because of some production on some (other) platform.
Is it because it's so bad? I doubt it. Because in demoscene the answer to this has always been to make a better production. Yes I think it's well made, good craftmanship. You said it was "objectively" bad. So we have objectively a disagreement here. Of course it's a logical possibility that most people see that it's bad, and we the makers are so deeply buried in predispositions, bad taste or bad craftmanship that we cannot acknowledge this. Help us!
added on the 2024-04-13 11:50:35 by bifat bifat
Of course every prod has people who like it and people who don't. However, I've rarely seen this kind of fervor in authors' pushback against people who don't see things eye to eye with them. That's all. I guess this gives people the itch to engage. However, your previous post, the one about "internet circles" helped me get an inch closer to understanding this fervor.
You seem to think that when left to their own devices everybody in fact liked this prod. But then, these "internet circles" you mentioned came into play. So according to your theory, some sort of gang mentality in these "internet circles" swayed people into disliking the prod. Please, watch the prod again. What's the story like? Text? Artwork? Art direction? Style? Consistency? Continuity? Pacing? Sound? See if you still think all these are "so well made".
added on the 2024-04-13 12:49:13 by 4gentE 4gentE
It looks more and more like this prod was made to get people mad, so authors could then watch over pouet comments and respond to each one like "butthurt much??? ;)))))".

In the end it was just a boring entry and the compo would have been more enjoyable without it. Not just the fact that it's made via AI image generator, but also that it was an exceptionally dull usage of AI image generators...
added on the 2024-04-13 14:31:27 by vurpo vurpo
People must realise that nowadays we live in new era. There are plenty of demos with 3D vectors, unlimited bobs, co-sine raster lines (nothing against it), etc. I really don't know why is so wrong to create some images (AI generated or not), group them as a slideshow, use a computer to display them and then share with others.
In my opinion this is a nice production and I'm waiting for Vol 3. Thumbs up!
rulez added on the 2024-04-13 15:22:48 by manyofhorror manyofhorror
Account created on 13.4.2024. at 15.15 h. COME ON!
added on the 2024-04-13 16:11:00 by 4gentE 4gentE
looks nice,

I would read more about technical side, screen resolution (hires interlaced I guess), how many colors (16? copper color change?) etc.
rulez added on the 2024-04-14 01:07:10 by Blast! Blast!
Screen resolution is 640x480. Display and conversion tech is basically as described here. The converter knows some new tricks compared to the 2016 version, and we use a new image codec and decompressor.
The main program is basically an anim player - panels are constantly loaded and (in-place) decompressed into a ring buffer, from where the main program yanks them into the visible area, enriching things with a bubble and text engine.
The CPU almost grinds to a halt in lines where the full picture is visible, so the display window is constantly reconfigured to save DMA. We start as quickly as possible with the full 640x480 title pic, after that the timing is adjusted for just barely enough image material coming in. Finally, Krill's decompressor is so fast that it "runs away" from the show, but only towards the end - you'll notice that the disk motor stops when the load/decrunch thread ends, while the remaining material is still pulled from the buffer.
added on the 2024-04-14 03:00:12 by bifat bifat
noby, sensenstahl: Scene quitting? Really? Why not just run with the time honoured "vote high for prods you like, low for prods you don't" and let the scene decide what to encourage people to produce next time?

photon: you couldn't just slap this together with off the shelf components - the image codec is far crunchier than you'd get from png or gzip, and the only way we managed to get the art onto one disk. As mentioned before, I was recruited long after the art was underway, purely to assist with demo size. The purpose was never "show off cjam's codec, and krill's streaming and decrunch" but in the end that's part of what's on show here. And I gather the display tech is quite novel too. You may as well say "this demo could have easily been an .mp4 on a bigger computer" - which is true of every demo ever produced.

4gentE: a newly created account isn't evidence of a sock puppet. It's pretty common for someone to not bother creating an account until they actually have something to say. (I remember being accused of being a sock puppet the first time I left a comment as Ars Tecnnica 🙄 - new account, siding with a woman against some misogynistic comments). And, I only created my account here so I could post in this thread too. (quick, someone PM christopherjam on csdb, tell him there's an imposter around :P)

vurpo: no interest in controversy here - I just saw a fun technical challenge to bring across some ideas from my c64 4k cruncher.
Quote:
Please, watch the prod again. What's the story like? Text? Artwork? Art direction? Style? Consistency? Continuity? Pacing? Sound? See if you still think all these are "so well made".

Bump
added on the 2024-04-14 10:01:47 by 4gentE 4gentE
Quote:
Account created on 13.4.2024. at 15.15 h. COME ON!

I visit this site for ages. This time I wanted to express my opinion about this prod and I created an account. What's wrong with that?
Master 4gentE, I did as you told and watched again. I really tried to hate it this time, but what can I say, I've already thumbed it up and cannot do this again. It still rocks and is super consistent on all levels, the pacing is just perfect, and I find the music especially supportive and fitting.
In experiments with a tester I've heard it was too fast and you couldn't immerse enough and the texts were hard to read. Greippi on the other hand: Faster, faster, comics are pulp, you're not watching them more closely than absolutely needed. So this is somewhere in the middle.
So this stuff here seems to be according to my taste and possibilities. Ask me again in ~five years when the maker bias has worn off...
added on the 2024-04-14 11:12:43 by bifat bifat
Quote:
super consistent on all levels

OK. Thank you.

Of course this all will cease to be relevant a month from now, as it always goes.
But, if you happen to wander upon this page in 5 years time, my guess is that it won't be my words that sting, but your own. Just a guess.

Speaking strictly for myself, there were no "internet circles" at play.
Peace.
added on the 2024-04-14 12:27:22 by 4gentE 4gentE
cancelling a selfvote out. but meh. tech is interesting.
sucks added on the 2024-04-14 15:23:07 by pigpenpete pigpenpete
If I look at the drama here I have the feeling:
"Oh gosh, it has begun...AI "attacks" and undermines mankind and
plays off human beings against each other" ;-)
And alway remember, the end is nigh.
added on the 2024-04-14 17:33:38 by ROG_VF ROG_VF
Quote:
It looks more and more like this prod was made to get people mad
As stated before, no, it wasn't. But regardless of any actual or perceived intention, what's the lesson about it getting people mad? (We genuinely don't know.)
added on the 2024-04-14 22:02:25 by Krill Krill
I keep thinking to myself: there’s some context here that I’m unaware of. There has to be. Context that will make me see that the ugly duckling is in fact a swan. Someone will reveal the secret context and things will become clearer.
added on the 2024-04-14 22:42:38 by 4gentE 4gentE
Are you guys planning to release the sourcecode for the imagecompressor? Or is it already released? That + Aklang, a killer combo. :)
added on the 2024-04-15 17:13:16 by chavez chavez
@chavez: The codec is specialised for 4 bpp pictures, which are somewhat uncommon on Amiga. Also the images are compressed in chunky mode (for better compression ratio), so 4 bpp C2P is required prior to display. The 68000 assembly decompressor is handcrafted to leverage 2-pixels-per-byte optimisation opportunities as well, and there are a few caveats like 64K of 64K-aligned work state and highly unrolled loops.

It's all not tidied up and was barely ready in time, let alone having any documentation.

So... not sure how useful it'd all be, really.

I guess it's up to CJam to write an article about the codec itself or post the Python code somewhere, but it'd require quite some work to make it useful for more common Amiga bitmap usecases.
added on the 2024-04-15 22:55:53 by Krill Krill
AI.. just no!
sucks added on the 2024-04-24 07:31:19 by _Chucky_ _Chucky_
Please get an actual human artist for the third one lol
sucks added on the 2024-04-24 09:47:47 by Flashira Flashira
This is really well done and technically impressive.
rulez added on the 2024-05-01 15:03:05 by Emufr3ak Emufr3ak
Once upon a time, demoscene proved to the whole world that computer art is art. Now demoscene is trying to prove that AI art is not art.
It’s just sad to watch how demoscene struggles with new technologies, knowing that demoscene was once on the edge of progress.

Discussions on the topic of "theft" in the demoscene are simply ridiculous. Demoscene has always been about the theft of music and graphics from “real artists”. If the author "takes a picture from the AI" and not "copy a Marvel movie poster" for prod, then we will receive less "theft".
Also, After all, the demoscene originated from "piracy". It's stupid to pretend that this didn't happen.

The fact that AI takes away work from artists is really a problem, but not in demoscene, there is no "real work" here, this is a non-profit activity for fun. If someone enjoys with AI, that's good.
rulez added on the 2024-05-02 07:53:40 by error error
Bleh bleh bleh
sucks added on the 2024-05-04 10:41:55 by vitalkanev vitalkanev
For the naysayers who seem to think it was as low-effort as "type in prompt, receive final panel": here's Greippi's making-of again, and some "workstages" plus a bit of storyboard.

As for the image codec + 68K decoder: should be fairly quick'n'easy to adapt for 8bpp images on AGA machines. Won't be typed in until actual demand, though, so anybody in urgent need drop us a note when their next killer 40K/64K is imminent. =)
added on the 2024-05-04 13:01:18 by Krill Krill
It's interesting to see how the AI question divided here too. Of course we have to take care about the AI generated picture in competition. But guys, Since 30 years, nobody's shocked by the fact lot of graphicians rip real pictures drawn by real artists on paper without any more creativity, just a very good use of the tools. Here what I see is an impressive program that allow to display so many colours in high definition, it's creazy... and so beautiful. And that music is perfect. So yes, old grandpas, it's not a standard demos with effect but I hope you will use this kind of engine to display so colourful OCS pictures in 640x480.
A nice change of pace. Really enjoyed this one!
rulez added on the 2024-07-07 22:27:44 by 1935711 1935711

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