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I actually think there's been drums in eg. the military (used as a metronome for walking in the right pace) in Europe for centuries now.

psonice: drums have been omnipresent in all european wars... at our peaceful and joyful times we tend to forget that music was primarily used for 'bad' purpose : military propaganda and warrior fuel :>

i think that music was primarily used also for ritual celebrations and village fairs in order to make people celebrate the power of chiefs and/or gods, and mate each others. So music is really a primal habit, that has strong links with reproduction, territory domination and spirituality (that fills in when knowledge is missing).

Yeah, there was a fair bit of drums used in the military, parades etc. I guess, but not so much in more normal music. Or perhaps it was used a lot, but the pieces we still listen to just happen to not have much?

Nutman: it's more than a simple metronome, it was meant to turn every soldier into ... TECHNOVIKING!!! :D

psonice, could you please visit the clue shoppe before you start talking about music?

nosfe: care to elaborate?

drums always existed.

I think I saw that in the news or read in a newspaper.

psonice: from what I read Erik Satie was one of the first european musicians using drums. I was going to talk about that if buttler hadn't his head in is own ass and read what ppl is writing.

psonice, what ps said. by saying that drums are something new in some culture you're clearly saying that you have no any kind of knowledge of any history of any musical culture at all. except maybe drum & bass, but who cares about that shit.

psonice, what ps said. by saying that drums are something new in some culture you're clearly saying that you have no any kind of knowledge of any history of any musical culture at all. except maybe drum & bass, but who cares about that shit.

Ah, I meant that drums were certainly around back then but weren't used a lot in Europe. At least almost nothing in my music collection from that time has any.

Yeah, looking back at that first drum post, I wasn't too clear on what I meant. By "there wasn't a lot of drumming", I meant there wasn't much compared with elsewhere, not that there was none.

I mentioned drum and bass because it's so totally opposite to music from a few hundred years back - very few instruments and voices, lots of drums.

music few hundred years ago wasnt solely comprised of the piano and strings orchestrations that you obtained. limited collections of focused fashionable periods dont necessarily reflect the musical heritage of the epoch.

its like saying the demoscene of the 90s had no dark ambient demos because your collection is composed of mostly cracktros and megademos. 73ms still existed.

actually i think psonice isn't wrong either, european music makers wanted to make music a 'real' art, less martial, less tribal, more elaborate, by privileging more 'feminine' instruments like violin, piano, flute, etc... (even if they weren't played by women).

i've always wondered why organ has been so popular for religious matter, it's pompous, almost martial too, that's not the first instrument i would think of to emulate some godlike choirs or render the feeling to touch spiritual skies :>

73ms would be in my collection if I could get it to run these days :(

I'm not sure that it's just my collection of music from that period, I read a fair few old books too and I'm struggling to think of any mention of drums other than military and maybe funeral uses. Lots of violins, pianos, harps, lutes, etc. but not drums.

zest: organs sound wonderful as backing for an orchestra, they give the sound a lot of extra depth. Alone though, not my cup of tea :)

like i said, it was the fashion at the period. that doesnt imply other currents were non existant. they just werent predominant.

ah ok indeed, probably the most powerful instrument at those times, with bells.

No one's mentioned the harpsichord. I consider that one pretty descriptive of an earlier fashion since it fell out of the mainstream.

Okay Zest, so martial = male = crude = baaaaaad, and feminine = subtle = elaborate = gooooood ... ... ?!

Oh boy, you are so screwed, with your gender-war point of view. (O_o)

comment on something said couple of pages before: you cannot insult a dead person. groupies on the other hand...

You can insult his legacy.

Drums doesn't look like a very complex technology, but dancing and singing is probably older and for sure universal.

My idea of why we like rythm in music is because of pre-birth and baby experiences, listening to mother heartbeats. Maybe heartbeats are our most pure music.

Heartbeats ftw \o/

I've just thought that heartbeats are generated by... valves.