pouët.net

... instead of recycling and tuning their algos in their following 'original' prods ad nauseam ;)

The "this is the internet, I can be as much of a shithole as I want" defense is crap btw.

You bring the focus on it every single day with a new BBS thread.

As we pointed it out many times, you come up with redundant suggestions and irrelevant crap about demos on the BBS, mainly because you never made one yourself.

There is nothing wrong having never done a demo yourself and it's always good to have naive insights but at least when you make suggestions that don't make much sense, accept that people who already made demos and who know what it takes and what are underlying issues give you their genuine feeling about it (ie, posts from Preacher, Gargaj, Gloom or Skrebbel)



That's the very point of our usual answers, the ones you don't like : why don't YOU do it, why don't YOU give it a try instead of opening endless BBS threads about that thing called demomaking and the way it should or could be ?

I'm sure you would make a strong point if you came up with something to show.

if youve never proved yourself by making a (half decent) demo, your suggestions on how to make them will be met with the same respect that the coach of a national football team gives the opinions of an armchair fan.
whether that fan is right or not on any particular point is wholely irrelevant. :)

in the old days, if you wanted to have a voice you had to make yourself heard by doing something to get your message spread. these days anyone can get heard whether or not they should be, so people have had to develop a more hardened bullshit filter to work out who is worth listening to. my bullshit filter started blocking zest a long time ago. :)

keops: what do you know to say i don't ? and this is a fuckin' harmless BBS, i don't try to inforce anything if you read me impartiality (uh), i just throw some thoughts and ideas, bash them as you want instead of myself, don't you know those (boring) corporate brainstorming meetings ? and i'm kind enough to have a little ego so that i'm entertaining you by being your guinea pig...

i have been in various scenes for a pretty long time to bear that, but do you see the effect if you castrate every newcomer around by shooting 'shut up noob, make demos and talk later'. This is a BBS, a newsgroup, a forum, an agora, a public place! guys be careful you're getting old.

yet again so many words and much ado for nothing.

We don't say "stfu noob", we say "make a demo and see how those things you propose work (or not)"

and btw, most "noobs" who show up and say "hey, i like these demos, how do you make them?" usually get something sensible back. if they show up and just post random images and their opinion on everything in the world, they might get told "maybe youre in the wrong place".

..and where they can stick their random images.

smash: that's exactly what i hated in the old days, they were so noob-unfriendly.

with the rise of the web a new wave of humanists (yes *humanists*) arise, trying to free knowledge and the scene by educating the newbies and giving to them. Even if they haven't modified the internal structure of the scene, they have totally infiltrated it and brought the welcomed fresh blood!

fortunately many sceners have found some free-sharing spirit around some small communities and sites (crackers, coders, graphicians, etc...), and through tutorials. Pouet BBS has never been such a site and community, despite (or because) its audience.

elitism may be good for prods and personal satisfaction, but bad for people and longevity.

As much as the "make something first, comment later" argument holds some weight you do all appear to be lynching Zest for no good reason. Why not comment on what he's saying rather than berating him for being a "n00b", or alternatively if you really think his ideas are not worth a dime, just ignore them.

Uh, we did that. Even stated reasons. Guess who ignored all that and went on rambling.

I think the suggestion is neither good nor bad in itself, but for whom? Personally, I know that I have too little time for demos to experiments like this. Everything besides sitting down and code I consider a distraction. Whenever I see my hobby potentially getting clogged up with more administration, discussion and "network-based solutions for improved creativity" my mind darkens and some part of me want to die.

What's wrong with cut all the crap and sit down, turn off your MSN and code for one un-interrupted hour? That would bring far more demos out than anything else.


RON PAUL for president!

such a crime, maybe i should open several fake accounts then.


those answers are mostly like "fuck off Zest" from you, do you see the reason why i seem to dislike them ?

and why do I supposedly do nothing ? because my ideas (sometimes web c/p) usually couldn't be realized by one guy, even he's the most talented man on earth, that's why i SHARE then on this great invention called a message board, doh!

keops can you please try to think a bit more beyond your fov, you seem to be stuck in your habits, as a lead coder/designer who 'just' need to grab a tune and some graphics from teammates or mail/irc contacts.

yeah for me, i've just failed at not getting down to personal attacks :(


moreover was i bringing in this particular thread the subject of compos, how to possibly add some new compos more relevant to nowadays creative ways among the web generation, is this so irrelevant ??

zest, you really do sound like the kid who shows up on gamedev.net and says "i just had a really good idea for a mmorpg! who wants to make it for me?".. :)

the demoscene is about what _you_ (not someone else) can _do_ (not talk about) _yourself_ (not telling someone else to do it for you).

for example, if you really were serious about an idea like that collaborative demo site, even if you cant make it all yourself (although i disagree with you, some people could make it more or less by themselves if they spent the time to do so, but i guess you wouldnt know that, eh?) you would try and get started, make a basic prototype that shows the idea working and proven, and then ask people to help you finish it.
unfortunately, i get the impression you're much more likely to just have another idea tomorrow and open a bbs topic about it than actually do some work and follow one idea through. (prove us wrong.)
ideas are cheap. the work to make them happen is not. most active sceners know this from bitter first hand experience. :)

besides a collaborative compo could be something else and simpler than the king-crowning demo compo, it could be a fun compo with real lego bricks or whatever, or a fast compo where each participant brings some minimal start content (music, gfx, code) into a demotool platform, then design the demo in progress, turn after turn, round after round, by adding some more content or tuning the fx/gfx/sfx/design/sync, by making modifs or creating new branches without much intra-communication and any supervision (hehe) , til a deadline! this creative anarchy would give several variations to be judged and voted... not sure how to decide who's the winner is, if there were to be one :>

Zest you are an idiot

zest: thank you for your ideas.

smash: true. and about me or the scene or our society.

but even if ideas are cheap, why not debate them ? some more talented or interested people could be inspired and use them for their own achievement and community good :)

demo-cracy should be based on sharing!

you'll feel better !

zest: and democracy should be based on responsibilities as well as rights. Building a simple but workable site like you suggest is perfectly possible for one person, and probably less work than a major demo. You could learn enough php + sql to do it in a couple of weeks. Go make something.

uh guys i may have a little ego but i know the releases i've made for other scenes, and i do code php+sql for a living.

now i have this little sin called curiosity, reading and listening and debating a lot, which isn't efficiently productive of course.

this usual intellectuals vs workers clash is stupid, a society need both, and a perfect society is where workers think and intellectuals work.

so you're the intellectual? hah :D

Damn right, Smash !

Plus : Zest, we know (from the "French presidential competition thread") that you DO have a prod in the pipeline, so why don't you use it as a collaborative canevas ? It would be a quick'n easy way to prove your point. Just asking, usw...

Posting random ideas on the pouet BBS isn't my idea of intellectual too. Maybe if they were posted in the latest releases section with working proof of their validity?