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The universe is infinite, thus, everyting exists

category: offtopic [glöplog]
The universe is tiny, thus nothing of any importance exists.
added on the 2011-01-14 23:10:05 by El Topo El Topo
If it's true that the universe was born inside a black hole, then yes, it's infinitely small. Maybe correct topic should be "The universe is infinitely small, thus, nothing exists"?
added on the 2011-01-15 00:19:11 by psonice psonice
my definition of infinite: that it is a made up word for those who dont know how to count up to something that is bigger than what they can imagine. i dont think infinite can be meassured and that you can prove that it is a number. let's say you always add one to a number and say that it is infinite because you can always add one, then you cannot even tell that it is a number, because even if you add one, the number you get as result was always there before you added it.
added on the 2011-01-18 09:13:35 by rudi rudi
1+∞=?
added on the 2011-01-18 09:47:33 by ringofyre ringofyre
so who watched bbc2 last night?
added on the 2011-01-18 13:28:04 by maali maali
not me, did i miss anything good?
added on the 2011-01-18 14:12:24 by psonice psonice
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my definition of infinite: that it is a made up word for those who dont know how to count up to something that is bigger than what they can imagine. i dont think infinite can be meassured and that you can prove that it is a number. let's say you always add one to a number and say that it is infinite because you can always add one, then you cannot even tell that it is a number, because even if you add one, the number you get as result was always there before you added it.

No modern mathematician would claim that infinity is an actual number.
If I have a 6 faced dice, and I have infinite tries, Is there a chance that "I'll never get a 6" ?

Mathematically, there's a very very little chance I'll never get a 6 in the ages. But, the infinite tries tend to make me think the chances to not have a 6 is zero: In practice, you'll always get a six quite fast. There is no reason for it to not happen. It just have to happen once.

Now get a dice with n faces and always infinite tries. There' no reason it will change for n>6. With infinite tries, all you have to do is to throw the dice again until it happens. The only difference is that a big n will ask more tries.

On the other hand, random mecanisms happens all the times in the universe, and universe also have a lot of times, and tries.
added on the 2011-01-18 15:49:06 by krabob krabob
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Mathematically, there's a very very little chance I'll never get a 6 in the ages.


Well no, mathematically the probability of never getting a six is (5/6)^∞ = 0

Of course there's no realistic setup in which you can keep rolling the die forever. The die will cease to exist at some point, and long before that it will stop having six sides. And you will probably be long dead by then.
added on the 2011-01-18 16:15:17 by doomdoom doomdoom
(5/6)^∞ of course being shorthand for lim( (5/6)^n ) as n->∞. Same difference.
added on the 2011-01-18 16:17:45 by doomdoom doomdoom
also, I'seen an interesting conference about this last summer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_Universe
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The fine-tuned Universe is the idea that the conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur when certain universal fundamental physical constants lie within a very narrow range, so that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different the universe would be unlikely to be conducive to the establishment and development of matter, astronomical structures, elemental diversity, or life as it is presently understood


quite interesting: simulations with different constants lead to sterile universes.
and to a lot of sterile debates also :)
added on the 2011-01-18 16:45:20 by krabob krabob
I read something about that too, but it was tied into the theory that black holes give birth to new universes. The idea was that a new universe beyond a certain narrow range would not produce black holes, and would be a 'dead end'. Effectively, universes would 'evolve' to become more complex, thus more likely to create more black holes.
added on the 2011-01-18 16:57:37 by psonice psonice
Isn't that quite logical? Same goes for planets. How many planets do we know? hundreds (thousands?). How many planets that could support life? One, maybe two.

But to say that non sterile universes could only exist when the 'certain universal fundamental physical constants' are right is a bit narrowminded.
That's only for universes to be similar to ours.
To go on with the planet analogy. The last habitable planet that was discovered was very different from ours. But again to have a habitable planet similar to that one, the proporties of that one would have to be similar.
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Isn't that quite logical? Same goes for planets. How many planets do we know? hundreds (thousands?). How many planets that could support life? One, maybe two.

Yes, but scientists have been more often in front of the exact contrary: We thought there was only one planet for a long time, we thought there was only one solar system for a long time also ! So for what I've heard, scientists are a lot into "maybe our universe is not the only one".
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But to say that non sterile universes could only exist when the 'certain universal fundamental physical constants' are right is a bit narrowminded.

Not with matter, then. You can't even have a bit of helium if you change a percent of one of the constants, with the same rules. And this is prooved by simulation !

Personnaly, I'm more into " Pi is also a constant, and of course Pi can't be changed,it would fuck up everything, constants are meant to not change, that's why they are not called variables: stop wanking with your simulation variables and get back to work. "
added on the 2011-01-18 17:20:29 by krabob krabob
Krabob: what you meant there was we only knew of one planet, solar system, whatever. Others may or may not have existed, but there was no evidence, so nobody could say they were definitely out there. That's the situation with other universes. Some theories say yes, some no, but we've zero evidence.
added on the 2011-01-18 17:31:25 by psonice psonice
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added on the 2011-01-18 17:39:04 by xernobyl xernobyl
psonice: quantum mechanics and stuff.. that an infinite number of parallel universes exist, that sorta stuff... or that our universe is but a hologram of its outer shell, etc, theoretical physics only Sheldon Cooper would get a hard on from.
added on the 2011-01-18 18:43:42 by maali maali
Why do you need atoms to have a universe?

That's like saying "oh but that's not a real 3D scene cause you're rendering it with a raytracer and not with a rasterizer."
maali: i quite like stuff like that, not often, but just now and then. Trying to get your head round it is a good challenge. The tv programs tend to make it too easy though, and also repeat themselves endlessly. And tell you what they're about to tell you endlessly too. I wish they'd just be honest and release a 10 minute program instead of wasting an hour of our time and theirs :)
added on the 2011-01-19 00:04:11 by psonice psonice
psonice: you've probably seen this, but it's worth it!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA
All this meta-phys makes me want to go on a nice relaxing cruise...
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added on the 2011-01-19 00:16:43 by ringofyre ringofyre
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my definition of infinite: that it is a made up word for those who dont know how to count up to something that is bigger than what they can imagine. i dont think infinite can be meassured and that you can prove that it is a number. let's say you always add one to a number and say that it is infinite because you can always add one, then you cannot even tell that it is a number, because even if you add one, the number you get as result was always there before you added it.

No modern mathematician would claim that infinity is an actual number.


Luckily i am not a modern mathematician :P
added on the 2011-01-19 09:07:12 by rudi rudi

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