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Windows 8, the end of 4k on windows?

category: general [glöplog]
Anyone who has done a size-coded demo on windows will probably be aware of the fact that you have to chuck out the manifest, then link against an ancient system32.dll from windows 98 if you want to save yourself 3k.

It appears that windows 8 will finally be dropping backwards compatibility with the old system 32. Bummer.

So this is partially a requiem for 4k, partially a suggestion (how about 7k?), and mainly a question:

How the hell do you chuck out the manifest in a 64 bit windows binary and still get the bastard to load? Anyone with the answer to this may just save 4k!
added on the 2011-09-12 18:38:09 by MeteoriK MeteoriK
[citation needed]
added on the 2011-09-12 18:41:43 by Gargaj Gargaj
What Gargaj said. None of the 64bit executables I did had a manifest (yes, both manifest tool and linker are set to "no") or linked against anything obscure, and all of them run well. So, uh, what?
added on the 2011-09-12 18:43:04 by kb_ kb_
we're obviously doing it wrong :-D
added on the 2011-09-12 18:44:34 by MeteoriK MeteoriK
There's hundreds of demos that don't run on Win 7 or Vista, and they're still popular. 256b demo's don't run on those systems and they're still being made.

It's not the end of 4k's. There will just be more youtube rips.
manifest? vcrt maybe? mmhh...
added on the 2011-09-12 18:46:46 by yumeji yumeji
Clearly (by kb and gargaj's comments) you can do it without employing ancient DLLs. so, er, how? I just get "failed to load manifest" when I do it.
added on the 2011-09-12 18:47:34 by MeteoriK MeteoriK
When you do what?
added on the 2011-09-12 18:48:33 by kb_ kb_
trying to load "system32.dll", apparently :P
added on the 2011-09-12 18:49:08 by Gargaj Gargaj
RIGHT. gimme an hour. I'm going to write "hello world" and take a screenshot :P
added on the 2011-09-12 18:50:09 by MeteoriK MeteoriK
Meteorik: But you DID try project properties -> Linker -> Manifest File -> "Generate Manifest" set to "NO WAI KTHX", yes?
added on the 2011-09-12 18:50:30 by kb_ kb_
yes, then it wouldn't run.
added on the 2011-09-12 18:52:35 by MeteoriK MeteoriK
this is VS express btw. I haven't gotten around to pirating the full version.
added on the 2011-09-12 18:53:12 by MeteoriK MeteoriK
400 quid!!!!!! I'd pay for it if it was 50.
added on the 2011-09-12 18:53:43 by MeteoriK MeteoriK
You're doing 64bit executables with Express? If yes, maybe you've got the switchover to the PSDK toolchain wrong? (VS itself only does 32 bit)

Also, you're sure this is a native and no .NET executable you're doing? :D
added on the 2011-09-12 18:56:19 by kb_ kb_
i bet he's linking to msvcrt9*.dll which does need the manifest
added on the 2011-09-12 18:59:08 by Gargaj Gargaj
wait, there are still people who aren't using static linkage for the runtime?
added on the 2011-09-12 19:00:42 by kb_ kb_
for intros, i suppose that can be a problem.
added on the 2011-09-12 19:01:32 by Gargaj Gargaj
Yes, because for intros you usually turn the stuff OFF and use intrinsics and a handful of small helper functions instead of the whole libc, don't you? :)
added on the 2011-09-12 19:02:27 by kb_ kb_
msvcrt9, yes! gargaj, I could kiss you. actually, I couldn't because we would both get an erection and it would end with a man-baby. I just did a bit of sick in my mouth.
added on the 2011-09-12 19:03:30 by MeteoriK MeteoriK
http://kebby.org/media/helloworld.zip

VS2010 project that I just hacked up. Gets you a "Hello World" message box in 2.5K with 32bit as well as 64bit release builds. Just add Crinkler for actual projects, kthx :)
added on the 2011-09-12 19:16:05 by kb_ kb_
built. worked. you da man, etc. Now browsing through project properties to figure out what option I was missing!
added on the 2011-09-12 19:17:30 by MeteoriK MeteoriK
I didn't set any compiler settings other than the ones absolutely necessary for making it run, so the whole optimization/code generation section is probably still a bit off. Handle with care.
added on the 2011-09-12 19:19:22 by kb_ kb_
dont forget to use jpeg for compression!!!! ask Sauron for details!!!
jpeg? we generate our textures :P
added on the 2011-09-12 19:47:42 by MeteoriK MeteoriK

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