musicans "plattform" on pouet ?
category: music [glöplog]
maybe the popularity of pouet resides in the fact that its some kind of an über-big-permanent-compo (means you can actually compare any prod to any other by comment/thumbcount), which is most likely also the reason groups who know they did a more-than-average-job on a prod are keen on having it listed here as soon as its released to catch the momentum of the moment and gather lots of attention and thumbs.
while thats not always good its what makes pouet different to all the other scene-related sites.
so its understandable musicians (and graphicians) want to be part of the game, although i can see many reasons why its probably not a good idea to encourage content thats not strictly bound to the scene. first sceners add their unrelated side-projects, later on friends of them come and add their stuff too and before you know it half of the userbase is complaining what that shit is all about and how its possibly scene-related.
having that said: i think musicdisks are really a good way to present your music on here while staying true to the scene-spirit! if you cant code im sure theres someone out there who can and is looking for a small to midsize project to contribute and learn. maybe theres even a ready-to-deploy player-engine waiting to be filled up with gfx, tracks and infotexts...
while thats not always good its what makes pouet different to all the other scene-related sites.
so its understandable musicians (and graphicians) want to be part of the game, although i can see many reasons why its probably not a good idea to encourage content thats not strictly bound to the scene. first sceners add their unrelated side-projects, later on friends of them come and add their stuff too and before you know it half of the userbase is complaining what that shit is all about and how its possibly scene-related.
having that said: i think musicdisks are really a good way to present your music on here while staying true to the scene-spirit! if you cant code im sure theres someone out there who can and is looking for a small to midsize project to contribute and learn. maybe theres even a ready-to-deploy player-engine waiting to be filled up with gfx, tracks and infotexts...
yzi: So if there's an exe+wild-only site (pouet) and there's an image-only site (artcity) then wouldnt we be all better off if there would be a music-only site to cover the remainder? Demozoo has the basic data (users + entries + ranking + file associations + etc.) already, and the scene.org HTTP frontends will practically do your load-balancing if you wanna stream the files.
The "everlasting compo" aspect is sometimes interesting and can give some information, but at the same time it's also Pouet's worst feature, IMHO. ;) The thumb up and thumb down thing seems to bring out some bad sides from people. Attention whoring and stuff like that. The compo is run at the PARTY, not at Pouet. It's like a live gig of sorts. Pouet comments are for after-the-fact hindsight, besserwisser-wankery, stiff upper lip, rock police type of "feedback". ;) It's a funny little byproduct, but don't take it too seriously. Then again, if you want more people to see your production, it's best to have the Pouet entry there as soon as possible.
Gargaj: I think the combination could work, particularly with support and linking to from Pouet's side. If your data and object ids are inter-linked and the entity model follows mutually agreed and compatible functionality rules. And they should be, because the culture and naming around the "business entities" is well established and commonly agreed. :)
Actually, I hadn't even noticed the whole Demozoo thing before reading this thread.
Actually, I hadn't even noticed the whole Demozoo thing before reading this thread.
Quote:
I really do not hope anyone tries to use it for getting publicity to their music or anything like that. It's a community listening to and commenting on demo scene music, and chatting about it.
There's certainly room to cut back the food image posting crap and add a platform for more important stuff on Nectarine, though. It used to be so much more than it is today.
I guess I meant to say that if Nectarine is supposed to be a scene music radio, then that's a different thing than what was being asked here. If you start offering the possibility to pick and choose the songs you listen to, then the community dynamics will probably change, and it will be a different thing. What is the functional role that these things want to have? As far as I know, the way everyone "uses" Nectarine currently is: everyone listens to the same stream at the same time, they give the star ratings (and can sometimes watch in real time for example how the average rating goes down, if the song takes a bad turn or is just too long and boring), chat about things (sometimes even about the songs…), can write song-comments, etc. But it's kind of a social thing, doing something together with other people in real time. If you try to use the database part of that sort of rather specialized system for providing general song database functionality, then… I don't know, maybe it could work?
It doesn't necessarily have to be coupled with the song database as it is. Daxx didn't even specify what he would imagine this platform he wants so much would look like, so if it would be like pouet right now, one could simply imagine a proper forum or music database with external links, which wouldn't interfere with the radio part at all. And btw, downloading CC-licensed songs should already be possible to normal users on Nectarine anyway.
I just thought about adding more content to pouet.net. graphics and music and how i wrote in past: animated stuff... Sure, there are sites to use already but i won't register to thousands of sites when you could conbine it to one which have already the possibilities for it.
It would even fine to have a mailing system here to contact users private... :) pouet have so much potential for that.
Just my opinion.
It would even fine to have a mailing system here to contact users private... :) pouet have so much potential for that.
Just my opinion.
Quote:
It would even fine to have a mailing system here to contact users private....
Umm, no. Privacy issues up the wazoo right here. However...
a PM system (which pretty much every other forum on the planet has) could be really useful here. And a delete/edit button for posts would be good.
Quote:
But it makes more sense if you can spread your music-composings & albums on a more popular site.
Makes sense for whom? To me it looks like musicians (granted, not all - I sure don't want it) want to have their music on Pouet to expand their audience, and not necessarily to make Pouet better for the audience it already has.
"Adding features" is never, ever, ever, a good product strategy, and in the case of a properly insulated site like Pouet, it makes even less sense.
Also, this -- just tons, and tons of this:
Quote:
Once upon a time someone thought it would be cool if there would be a site for all the executable / wild productions made by the scene, so he sat down and made Pouet.
Some time later someone thought it would be cool if there would be a site for all the graphics, so they sat down and made ArtCity.
Then some time later someone thought it would be cool if there would be a site for all the music, so they went on Pouet to complain about it.
I'm a little bit surprised how harsh some people react to daxxs simple suggestion of integrating music to pouet.
I mean it's total okay if this isn't happening because of whatever reason, but criticize him about »not coding it himself« or »complaining about« is inappropriate in my opinion.
I mean it's total okay if this isn't happening because of whatever reason, but criticize him about »not coding it himself« or »complaining about« is inappropriate in my opinion.
Quote:
And a delete/edit button for posts would be good.
I object.
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/BuildingCommunitieswithSo.html
The level of discourse on pouet is low enough as it is, don't you think it's at least a little bit sobering knowing that what you post is there forever?
Quote:
Quote:But it makes more sense if you can spread your music-composings & albums on a more popular site.
Makes sense for whom? To me it looks like musicians (granted, not all - I sure don't want it) want to have their music on Pouet to expand their audience, and not necessarily to make Pouet better for the audience it already has.
That's what I meant. There's nectarine, pouet, and music should be on pouet: no sense, just it's more popular.
revival: At least a limited edit mode ("shit I typoed that URL") that gets deactivated after some minutes would make sense, though.
Quote:
I'm a little bit surprised how harsh some people react to daxxs simple suggestion of integrating music to pouet.
I mean it's total okay if this isn't happening because of whatever reason, but criticize him about »not coding it himself« or »complaining about« is inappropriate in my opinion.
Because this is not the first time this was discussed and next to that, daxx literally gave no extra input on how to do this, just 'make this on pouet, because i like pouet, kthx!'
That will push people's buttons (and gargaj has leading)
SoundCloud is awesome btw, use it, you can even put tags on your tracks like nicknames, groups, parties, etc!
okkie...
Why do i have to explain, that music and graphic is also a big part of the demoscene?
If you've read my first message you should seen, that i just asked a question and did not gave commands to do it ("because i like it").
How to do it? Like it's already done with demos. Uploading links with a nice cover or screenshot or whatever. Same for graphics. You don't need to list them at "latest added prods / last released prod". It COULD have an extra "latest added music" - "latest added graphic". and just show the last three. It will not bother anyone if he is not interested in it.
It's even good for the popularity for musicans and graphicans.
Maybe demoscener pay more attention to other good graphic- & musicans and even coders get inspired to move their fingers to code something. Music & Graphic give you the inspiration.
You know the laziness of the world wide web. :) No one visit X sites for that.
Why do i have to explain, that music and graphic is also a big part of the demoscene?
If you've read my first message you should seen, that i just asked a question and did not gave commands to do it ("because i like it").
How to do it? Like it's already done with demos. Uploading links with a nice cover or screenshot or whatever. Same for graphics. You don't need to list them at "latest added prods / last released prod". It COULD have an extra "latest added music" - "latest added graphic". and just show the last three. It will not bother anyone if he is not interested in it.
It's even good for the popularity for musicans and graphicans.
Maybe demoscener pay more attention to other good graphic- & musicans and even coders get inspired to move their fingers to code something. Music & Graphic give you the inspiration.
You know the laziness of the world wide web. :) No one visit X sites for that.
You can already start using Demozoo for that, although they lack music-related metadata modeling (platform/hardware, format, number of channels, length, info texts, etc.). Nectarine has the metadata modeling, but its functionality concentrates on the "radio" aspect, and adding and editing stuff goes manually via moderators.
One very nice thing about Nectarine is that even though a song entry represents, say, a MOD or S3M file, they store an audio rendering of the file, mp3 or something, which is supposed to be played using the right player and hardware, with e.g. Amiga stereo narrowing tamed down etc.
One very nice thing about Nectarine is that even though a song entry represents, say, a MOD or S3M file, they store an audio rendering of the file, mp3 or something, which is supposed to be played using the right player and hardware, with e.g. Amiga stereo narrowing tamed down etc.
Pouet is about demos, you pay attention only for that, it isn't a coder, graphician or musician site.
Everyone know that music and graphics are part of demoscene, you are saying that pouet is a coder site.
Your wishes won't work without heavy spam. Also you don't want a queue system on pouet.
Everyone know that music and graphics are part of demoscene, you are saying that pouet is a coder site.
Your wishes won't work without heavy spam. Also you don't want a queue system on pouet.
I'm not saying I would want this in Pouet, but for some reason it seems to work on CSDB. They have music, graphics, disk covers, hardware and all that stuff on the same site, and ALL types of party results can be handled in the same system. As long as everything is about the Commodore 64.
It's also, and should I say, most importantly, a cultural thing. The fact that the Commodore 64 scene (the people) have wanted to have their music and graphics and hardware and swapper activities and everything visible in their community site, tells something about the values of the scene (the people). And it's not a one-way street, having them on the site must also have an effect on the people.
If the people originally creating Pouet had valued graphics and music as an essential part of the scene, they would have made it a part of Pouet. Isn't that just self-evident?
I've been a CSDB user for a couple of years now, and it has made me pay more attention to C64 scene graphics and music, particularly graphics. I now respect those art forms more, and I'm more interested in them.
If the people originally creating Pouet had valued graphics and music as an essential part of the scene, they would have made it a part of Pouet. Isn't that just self-evident?
I've been a CSDB user for a couple of years now, and it has made me pay more attention to C64 scene graphics and music, particularly graphics. I now respect those art forms more, and I'm more interested in them.
Quote:
although they lack music-related metadata modeling
Err. We do have tags, and there's already a lot of tracked music that is tagged with things like "4ch", "ProTracker", etc. - but with thousands of tunes in the db, it was of course not our priority to determine the number of channels of each and every tune before launch, so feel free to complete the work.
No, I said wrong, that gives the wrong impression. Should have been "If the people creating Pouet had valued graphics and music as highly as the C64 scene value theirs". It's about people's values, and as we know everyone has different values. There are no "right" and "wrong" values, just different. I don't have a problem with this, Pouet is what it is, and I can live with it.
In order to have music and graphics in your database, you need to have data at the individual scener level (because otherwise, people will go to the page for Fairlight and find that the demos are buried in thousands of music / graphic entries credited to just 'Fairlight'). Pouet doesn't have that (except in a very limited way, by repurposing the user list for credits). To do that, you need to put a lot of effort into managing details about group memberships, sceners changing their nick, multiple sceners with the same nick and so on. This was basically the entire design brief for Demozoo.
Saga Musix: manually? Boil the ocean? You cannot be serious. These things must be automatic, or fail miserably.
I should have quoted daXX ;)
It's possible to control the flow of one platform. Csdb does it. You have to tell why you want to register first. Also there are more rules than pouet.
Pouet is great as it is. I think.
It's possible to control the flow of one platform. Csdb does it. You have to tell why you want to register first. Also there are more rules than pouet.
Pouet is great as it is. I think.