Payback 2014
category: parties [glöplog]
The party was great, too bad the sound settings were a bit wrong and some delays with compos ect. but those things are to be expected at a demoparty.
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Fuck this shit, next time I take part in the damn ASCII compo, as it's difficult to fuck up projector setting, in contrary to that *deaf* guy setting up the audio. Srsly, man - if you are reading this - go with the fuckin straith EQ settings next time if you don't have any idea how to do this correctly. And apparently, you've got none.
The deaf guy would be me. You could have talked to me before the music compo, so we could have done something about it. Constructive feedback and especially suggestions to improve are always welcome.
EQ setting actually *was* flat, mainly because I ran out of time while setting up everything. I did listen to various tracks during the short sound check, and they sounded OK to me. Maybe I should use your track the next time ;)
Remember this was a budget PA sound system, not a hifi setup. Multiple things about the audio setup could have been done better, and will be done better the next time. Live and learn.
Some words about the party http://wp.me/p369Rj-1dp .. Big thanks to all the organizer for making Payback happen again!
I thought the PA system was better than last year, was it the same? The main hall certainly is challenging with all of it's reflective surfaces (glass / rock / hardwood floor), yet its irregular shape should at least contribute to lesser axial & tangential room modes.
Nrg: One thing worthy of testing PA-wise might be to install treble speakers closer to ceiling and perhaps pointing slightly downwards. At the Payback party location people often flock to watch entries standing up pretty close to the screen / loudspeakers, and this dampens the treble for everyone else sitting further back in the main hall.
Subwoofer(s) could also be insulated better from/off the floor: The benches at the sauna downstairs were actually resonating at times due to low frequencies travelling inside the building structures. If there's anything likely to resonate upstairs (eg. empty chairs?), this could easily make the sound reproduction less defined through unwanted noise.
Then again, I usually think that if your mixdown doesn't sound "right" on a given soundsystem, then you more likely did something wrong. This comment is not pointed at you Argasek, but more of my personal guide. Where my own entry goes I know it fails at least on the bass synth department: That sound just doesn't reproduce very well with laptop speakers, a trade-off of me wanting a smooth/soft bass sound.
Bottom line: Commercial music was played throughout the event and all that sounded mostly ok. That's one very viable point of reference for checking your mixes back home, just need to bother taking notes.
I thought the PA system was better than last year, was it the same? The main hall certainly is challenging with all of it's reflective surfaces (glass / rock / hardwood floor), yet its irregular shape should at least contribute to lesser axial & tangential room modes.
Nrg: One thing worthy of testing PA-wise might be to install treble speakers closer to ceiling and perhaps pointing slightly downwards. At the Payback party location people often flock to watch entries standing up pretty close to the screen / loudspeakers, and this dampens the treble for everyone else sitting further back in the main hall.
Subwoofer(s) could also be insulated better from/off the floor: The benches at the sauna downstairs were actually resonating at times due to low frequencies travelling inside the building structures. If there's anything likely to resonate upstairs (eg. empty chairs?), this could easily make the sound reproduction less defined through unwanted noise.
Then again, I usually think that if your mixdown doesn't sound "right" on a given soundsystem, then you more likely did something wrong. This comment is not pointed at you Argasek, but more of my personal guide. Where my own entry goes I know it fails at least on the bass synth department: That sound just doesn't reproduce very well with laptop speakers, a trade-off of me wanting a smooth/soft bass sound.
Bottom line: Commercial music was played throughout the event and all that sounded mostly ok. That's one very viable point of reference for checking your mixes back home, just need to bother taking notes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n02GjXw9XI4&hd=1 video from saturday night, with Jeff Mills song played by Mayor, GR, or NRG .. :)
http://byterapers.com/~legend/payback2014/ some snaps from the party itself.
Monday day-off always is worth every cent. Thx for the organizers once again! Btw shouldnt you already be planning the summer payback?-)
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I thought the PA system was better than last year, was it the same? The main hall certainly is challenging with all of it's reflective surfaces (glass / rock / hardwood floor), yet its irregular shape should at least contribute to lesser axial & tangential room modes.
It wasn't the same. It was a different vendor and a bit more powerful this year.
Quote:
Nrg: One thing worthy of testing PA-wise might be to install treble speakers closer to ceiling and perhaps pointing slightly downwards. At the Payback party location people often flock to watch entries standing up pretty close to the screen / loudspeakers, and this dampens the treble for everyone else sitting further back in the main hall.
Yep, this was one of the problems. Need to get the tops higher up, or even hang from the ceiling.
Quote:
Subwoofer(s) could also be insulated better from/off the floor: The benches at the sauna downstairs were actually resonating at times due to low frequencies travelling inside the building structures. If there's anything likely to resonate upstairs (eg. empty chairs?), this could easily make the sound reproduction less defined through unwanted noise.
Yep, also the windows upstrairs were resonating a lot at times :) good point about the isolation.
Quote:
Bottom line: Commercial music was played throughout the event and all that sounded mostly ok. That's one very viable point of reference for checking your mixes back home, just need to bother taking notes.
Thanks for the comments!
First of all - Nrg, my apologies for the rather harsh reaction/comments, I admit I overreacted a bit, and I'm sorry. I believe you the EQ was flat: probably it was the characteristics of the PA system itself, or the problematic environment el-bee mentioned. Still, please understand my frustration at the partyplace at least partially - from the point where I was sitting (about 2-3 meters from big screen, right side) the sound was distorted to the point where the solo part of song was simply inaudible, which made it sound just like a few patterns repeating (thus: very boring).
El-bee also made the (very proper) point about commercial tracks sounding OK - well, without any doubt, I believe a huge majority of demoscene musicians cannot provide the same level of mixing/mastering quality as the professional producers, which is, I think, understandable (we can argue whether this is an excuse or not). And honestly - neither can I. However, as far as my track is concerned, I have tested it on several audio setups (audio monitors, two pairs of headphones, laptop speakers, home loudspeakers, etc.) and it did sound from at least OKish to good, so I assumed on the party it may only sound better. ;) El-bee: I'm aware of importance of such testing, but please remember, the proper PA setup is even more than important, especially when it comes to the tracked music competitions, where the creators simply DO NOT have possibility to take care of proper mixing/mastering (or at least, those possibilities are severely limited). The final thing: discussing commercial tracks is a bit like stepping on a thin ice: there are more and more victims of the loudness war ;)
Cheers!
El-bee also made the (very proper) point about commercial tracks sounding OK - well, without any doubt, I believe a huge majority of demoscene musicians cannot provide the same level of mixing/mastering quality as the professional producers, which is, I think, understandable (we can argue whether this is an excuse or not). And honestly - neither can I. However, as far as my track is concerned, I have tested it on several audio setups (audio monitors, two pairs of headphones, laptop speakers, home loudspeakers, etc.) and it did sound from at least OKish to good, so I assumed on the party it may only sound better. ;) El-bee: I'm aware of importance of such testing, but please remember, the proper PA setup is even more than important, especially when it comes to the tracked music competitions, where the creators simply DO NOT have possibility to take care of proper mixing/mastering (or at least, those possibilities are severely limited). The final thing: discussing commercial tracks is a bit like stepping on a thin ice: there are more and more victims of the loudness war ;)
Cheers!
I wasn't at Payback, but I have read enough pro-audio magazine articles about PA tuning to conclude that it's really best to leave it to professionals. Cheap gear and no skills and no time --> horror. Professional mastering is just as hard. The primary purpose of mastering is to make the track sound as good as possible on as wide a range of mis-tuned equipment as possible. If you play badly mastered tracks (which practically all of the entries normally are) through a badly tuned sound system, the audience is hearing two layers of crap.
kliitos ja anteex
Youtubies for 4 of the compos captured on site (no emulation).
PC Demo
PC Intro
8-bit
Combined Amiga
Original 50fps / 60fps encodes are still available if needed. PM me on IRC.
I hope I got everything right (info etc..) :)
PC Demo
PC Intro
8-bit
Combined Amiga
Original 50fps / 60fps encodes are still available if needed. PM me on IRC.
I hope I got everything right (info etc..) :)
binaries uploaded to https://www.scene.org/dir.php?dir=%2Fparties%2F2014%2Fpayback14/
Sorry for the dealy on this, been dead inside (tm)
Argasek: I have your trophy from the streaming music, I will bring it to Revision?
Thank you to all our guests, participants and friends! Awesomeness the entire event, with zero security issues. Just great fun and party the entire weekend!
and last but not least: A MASSIVE thank you to all our organizers, who made this event possible <3 Hope to see everyone the next time :)
Sorry for the dealy on this, been dead inside (tm)
Argasek: I have your trophy from the streaming music, I will bring it to Revision?
Thank you to all our guests, participants and friends! Awesomeness the entire event, with zero security issues. Just great fun and party the entire weekend!
and last but not least: A MASSIVE thank you to all our organizers, who made this event possible <3 Hope to see everyone the next time :)
T-101: Please do! Thank you. Was just going to ask you to do this :)
Downloaded everything off scene.org thx :)
"The real party is outside" - first set of pictures from the party. Well... sort of. ;-) http://www.flickr.com/photos/argasek/sets/72157640601261725/
"Chicks & saunas!" - second set of pictures. Enjoy! :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/argasek/sets/72157640738821094/
"Chicks & saunas!" - second set of pictures. Enjoy! :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/argasek/sets/72157640738821094/