The scene's opinion of GNU/Linux
category: code [glöplog]
ASD demos are there to be watched, not to be looked at. ;)
Well, that's a 20 hours demo, comments and good code is a luxury. It does run very fast though and it doesn't matter if I completely forget (and I will) what each bit does in 10 days - because it is not going to be worked on any more. That's it!
For history's sake, I wish you'd properly comment & indent your code and upload it somewhere eventually (github/google code) for fixes/ports/analysis ten or twenty years down the road.
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Quote:[...] So the downside is that (semi-)newbies are prevented from learning and advancing their skill[...]
I think it's a catch-22: if you're too newbie to learn basic democoding skills by yourself, you're also too newbie to be able to understand code from 'pro' democoders.
We didn't talk about "basic" skills before, and that's why I had put "semi-" in parantheses before "newbie". ;) There is a stage where you can read other people's sources while you still not know all effects and tricks, and that's the sweet spot where you can learn from source code.
And yes, it's of course easier to reverse engineer code on 8/16 bit platforms than on modern ones, but it's even easier with the source.
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Us 'old guys' have all taught ourselves as well... and we didn't have the luxury of the internet, Google and all that. We did fine.
I can't speak for you of course, but I *did* learn a lot by looking at other people's sources, only they had been in magazines or from friends and not from the internet. (Opening the sideborder on the C64 was explained in a magazine with source code, for example).
And just because "we" (you) did fine doesn't mean using Google and reading all the internets should be denied to new blood if it makes their entry to demo coding easier.
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These days it's already a LOT easier to start demo coding, because there are tons of resources around (and my blog also links to relevant online tutorials, e-books and other resources).
And it would be even easier with source code on top of that. ;) Remember that you also have to learn a lot more these days until you feel ready to release a semi-decent demo.
Keeping your advantage, being too lazy or being embarrassed by the quality are reasons for not releasing source code I understand. Not doing it because "we did fine without back then" or "I'm sure nobody will be able to learn from it anyway" sounds a bit silly to me.
But that's going way off-topic anyway. :)
@Kylearan: I think you misunderstood Scali's post. He means that it looks ludicrous that someone who have the luxury (from 199Xs point of view) of being able to search on Internet would complain about lack of resources (or sources).
You don't need to dive in the Sargasso Sea of Navis' ugly code to find the Grial of demomaking. Just use google and those tutorials and books and good commented sources and code, code, and code your own effects.
To become an expert in something, you must learn from your own errors.
You don't need to dive in the Sargasso Sea of Navis' ugly code to find the Grial of demomaking. Just use google and those tutorials and books and good commented sources and code, code, and code your own effects.
To become an expert in something, you must learn from your own errors.
agreed! thinking linux is a serious demo platform is already embarassing enough!
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I can't speak for you of course, but I *did* learn a lot by looking at other people's sources, only they had been in magazines or from friends and not from the internet. (Opening the sideborder on the C64 was explained in a magazine with source code, for example).
I am not against sharing source code in general... And I actually have open sourced my OpenGL rendering framework, 3dsmax exporter and scene format ages ago.
I just generally prefer to share only code snippets that demonstrate a particular trick or effect, rather than releasing the source of a complete production.
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And just because "we" (you) did fine doesn't mean using Google and reading all the internets should be denied to new blood if it makes their entry to demo coding easier.
That's not what I said at all, and as I say, my blogs do point out various online resources where you can find examples in source code, or background info on hardware etc.
I'm just saying that you shouldn't rely on source code as a crutch.
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Remember that you also have to learn a lot more these days until you feel ready to release a semi-decent demo.
I tend to disagree there. You
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Not doing it because "we did fine without back then" or "I'm sure nobody will be able to learn from it anyway" sounds a bit silly to me.
I never said that was the reason. The reason is more along the lines of: "Some of my code is very messy/buggy/hard-to-read/etc. I don't think I'm actually helping people by releasing it. And I certainly can't be arsed to provide 'support' for it."
So the point is more that there isn't a good reason to clean up my code for release (although there are exceptions as mentioned above).
Whoops, something went missing there.
... just have to learn different stuff now. There's also a lot of stuff that you DON'T have to learn anymore, because that is taken care of by OS libraries, hardware-acceleration and whatnot.
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I tend to disagree there. You
... just have to learn different stuff now. There's also a lot of stuff that you DON'T have to learn anymore, because that is taken care of by OS libraries, hardware-acceleration and whatnot.
@Maali: Linux can only be a platform for what it is. That is... one for an operating system.
Because Linux is just a kernel. The category "linux" here in pouet is in reality a "bag category" for a bunch of desktop operating systems that share kernels of the same kind (Linux kernels) and a lot of other things that come from GNU.
Maybe the best option (until that SteamOS appear) is to make live CD demos. :D
Because Linux is just a kernel. The category "linux" here in pouet is in reality a "bag category" for a bunch of desktop operating systems that share kernels of the same kind (Linux kernels) and a lot of other things that come from GNU.
Maybe the best option (until that SteamOS appear) is to make live CD demos. :D
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Maybe the best option (until that SteamOS appear) is to make live CD demos. :D
Even that will fall flat on its face.
Your live CD won't include drivers for future videocards, chipsets and other hardware. So it may work on (some) PCs at the time of release... but it will probably become obsolete even more quickly than a regular linux binary.
And once you want to try updating those drivers, you open up the whole can of worms again: "Oh, this driver needs kernel version X.Y as a minimum, and only works with Xorg U.V or higher... which relies on libraries K, L, M etc..."
The only solution is to beat some sense into those open source people that binary compatibility is important even for open source software.
or... we can leave all the trouble to the developers of wine that their emulator can properly wrap highend dx11 shit. ;)
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or... we can leave all the trouble to the developers of wine that their emulator can properly wrap highend dx11 shit. ;)
John Carmack approves this message!
or we can just troll post on pouet claiming that something something is shit and don't even know what something something is...
how is that trolling when the great guru of realtime computer graphics, carmack himself, agrees with me? :P
wut? i don't care who you agree with. by coincidence even you and hitler share some opinion prolly. also: john carmack did not send a demo into space. he's a lamer.
i didnt know linux comes with a godwin subsystem!
i didn't know brain run on linux
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A novice asked the Master: “Here is a programmer that never designs, documents or tests his programs. Yet all who know him consider him one of the best programmers in the world. Why is this?”
The Master replies: “That programmer has mastered the Tao. He has gone beyond the need for design; he does not become angry when the system crashes, but accepts the universe without concern. He has gone beyond the need for documentation; he no longer cares if anyone else sees his code. He has gone beyond the need for testing; each of his programs are perfect within themselves, serene and elegant, their purpose self-evident. Truly, he has entered the mystery of Tao.”
taken from The Tao Of Programming
Note to self: don't ever hire anyone who has mastered Tao.
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Note to self: don't ever hire anyone who has mastered Tao.
Aren't they all like that though?
I think the thread has reached a point where we need Tao Tao of Programming 
I second that.
Does that mean it's "pony time"?
finally.
^ inorite?
