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category: general [glöplog]
I do not disagree with you at all.
The question is what you want that stuffed animal in the zoo that will be representing YOU and US to look like.
The zoo WILL become reality, so make the best out of it.
The question is what you want that stuffed animal in the zoo that will be representing YOU and US to look like.
The zoo WILL become reality, so make the best out of it.
Also, this is a technical support thread. Happy to discuss consequences of AI, but not in this thread, please.
(I do not know if the stuffed animal description from above from the LLM I consulted is correct, it was just an example query to that future museum director.)
(I do not know if the stuffed animal description from above from the LLM I consulted is correct, it was just an example query to that future museum director.)
Please note that from October 18 we will disable receiving incoming mail to your untergrund.net mail account or forwarder.
However, you still are able to pull all your existing mail via POP3. You will also still be able to receive internal notification emails sent by untergrund.net hosting, so for example password reset emails.
However, you still are able to pull all your existing mail via POP3. You will also still be able to receive internal notification emails sent by untergrund.net hosting, so for example password reset emails.
The code on it is 20 years old. Users left behind FTP accounts that got hacked, WP installations that got hacked.
There are constant warnings from Google Safe Browsing due to some abandoned account getting malware uploaded to.
The system allows users to send server-side email, was a lot of user websites require this for THEIR user's accounts. We constantly have to check that our IP address ranges do not get blacklisted.
I agree that I finally need to go for good.
When it comes to make untergrund.net read-only we only get empty promises. The plan was there, but code work was needed. Being a server sysadmin is shitty work. Nobody will ever see what you do. People want me gone, but nobody wants to take over my tasks, because they are shitty tasks that are no fun. And this is going on for 15 years now.
Yes yes, scamp hurt feelings again: Revision started with "scamp, piss off. but do the work, give us the bigscreen, and keep giving us your money. Appreciation will come in 20 years from now or so.".
Again: Yes, I want to go. The scene for 20 years has failed to get themselves a nicer version of scamp. You had enough time, really.
There are constant warnings from Google Safe Browsing due to some abandoned account getting malware uploaded to.
The system allows users to send server-side email, was a lot of user websites require this for THEIR user's accounts. We constantly have to check that our IP address ranges do not get blacklisted.
I agree that I finally need to go for good.
When it comes to make untergrund.net read-only we only get empty promises. The plan was there, but code work was needed. Being a server sysadmin is shitty work. Nobody will ever see what you do. People want me gone, but nobody wants to take over my tasks, because they are shitty tasks that are no fun. And this is going on for 15 years now.
Yes yes, scamp hurt feelings again: Revision started with "scamp, piss off. but do the work, give us the bigscreen, and keep giving us your money. Appreciation will come in 20 years from now or so.".
Again: Yes, I want to go. The scene for 20 years has failed to get themselves a nicer version of scamp. You had enough time, really.
Are u going to tale down the server scamp? (Sorry to much text to read theough here) but if this is or will ve the case can the data be stored at scene.org servers?
And I will not list all the technical things that someone would have needed to be done, as t his is NOT a request for anyone promising it again to then not do it, but just for transparency a very simple example:
A lot of static websites would work just fine read-only. There is no longer new stuff posted to it. But they have the PHP defaults enabled and store a session ID for every page visit in their own mysql account. So if the database is made read-only, even most of the STATIC pages will break.
None of this is rocket science. These days probably 90% of the work could done by Claude if you give proper instructions. Find all code where this is done, migrate to either remove session id requirements, or at least move them to /tmp. But it is work. It is no fun. Nobody will see it. Nobody will appreciate it. So nobody is doing it.
And that's OK.
A lot of static websites would work just fine read-only. There is no longer new stuff posted to it. But they have the PHP defaults enabled and store a session ID for every page visit in their own mysql account. So if the database is made read-only, even most of the STATIC pages will break.
None of this is rocket science. These days probably 90% of the work could done by Claude if you give proper instructions. Find all code where this is done, migrate to either remove session id requirements, or at least move them to /tmp. But it is work. It is no fun. Nobody will see it. Nobody will appreciate it. So nobody is doing it.
And that's OK.
so now the ftp access is down too meaning people who want to migrate can't get their stuff either?
Adok: The old server will be removed from our datacenter the next time we are in Frankfurt (me and most of my team live in Thailand, and due to the war flight tickets are 3000+ Euro now).
Also, there is a brand new server that was supposed to be the static archive. Due to RAM shortages that server when I bought it was worth 5.000 Euros, now it's worth 20.000. That server is sitting there for over a year not doing anything.
I will now instead use it for the nerd art community that we have in Thailand instead.
We will keep running the datacenter for at least another 5 years from now.
This is not punishment or hurt ego. It is wasting money and energy and not using resources that could be used to benefit people. I don't want the 20.000 Euro. I want the 20.000 Euro server to be used for something.
Also, there is a brand new server that was supposed to be the static archive. Due to RAM shortages that server when I bought it was worth 5.000 Euros, now it's worth 20.000. That server is sitting there for over a year not doing anything.
I will now instead use it for the nerd art community that we have in Thailand instead.
We will keep running the datacenter for at least another 5 years from now.
This is not punishment or hurt ego. It is wasting money and energy and not using resources that could be used to benefit people. I don't want the 20.000 Euro. I want the 20.000 Euro server to be used for something.
again, can't you just turn off web and let people migrate their shit off via ftp?
Gargaj: You have a perfect memory that is just amazing (really). And you are able to recall any single misstep of mine from 25+ years you know me within seconds.
Please use the memory and find the thread from 2024 where people were asked to create an archive until the year 2025.
It is now 2026.
Again: Want me gone, FINE, YES, but take over my fucking work. I am sick and tired of more of a decade of this schizophrenic "scamp should be gone but still give to us". My personal disorders are known for 30 years and will never fully go away.
Stop exploiting me.
What do you want me to do? Turn it on again, and wait until 2028 for nothing to happen?
No. Sorry guys, but this can not go on anymore.
And no, I will not re-start the "how can this be archived" discussion from 2024. No, you can not just upload it somewhere. This is not how it works. Look at archive.org or archive.ph to understand how you preserve web content long-term.
Please use the memory and find the thread from 2024 where people were asked to create an archive until the year 2025.
It is now 2026.
Again: Want me gone, FINE, YES, but take over my fucking work. I am sick and tired of more of a decade of this schizophrenic "scamp should be gone but still give to us". My personal disorders are known for 30 years and will never fully go away.
Stop exploiting me.
What do you want me to do? Turn it on again, and wait until 2028 for nothing to happen?
No. Sorry guys, but this can not go on anymore.
And no, I will not re-start the "how can this be archived" discussion from 2024. No, you can not just upload it somewhere. This is not how it works. Look at archive.org or archive.ph to understand how you preserve web content long-term.
I think everybody has migrated the FTP and there are mirrors. At least there was guy in 2024 who said to have solved all of this and that I can now fuck off.
And I think it is you that has updated most broken links on pouet, too.
I don't think there is any harm done here. All should be good.
And I think it is you that has updated most broken links on pouet, too.
I don't think there is any harm done here. All should be good.
you only need to go back two pages to see that there was no mention of "even static sites will get shut down in 2026", and there hasn't been a mention of that since either.
Ok, more friendly tone mode please, scamp.
Gargaj: The mysql databases and user webspaces can not be just uploaded there or handed over to someone. I checked, there were closed forums where people exchanged private messages. And hardcoded passwords. And shit.
Users created subdirs and "abused" them as personal file storage. There appears to be VERY personal stuff in there.
We can not do that. The only thing that can be done is an archive project, which is crawling the stuff to make sure only things are archived that were meant to public.
And as said, FTP should be archived.
Gargaj: The mysql databases and user webspaces can not be just uploaded there or handed over to someone. I checked, there were closed forums where people exchanged private messages. And hardcoded passwords. And shit.
Users created subdirs and "abused" them as personal file storage. There appears to be VERY personal stuff in there.
We can not do that. The only thing that can be done is an archive project, which is crawling the stuff to make sure only things are archived that were meant to public.
And as said, FTP should be archived.
But damnit, I am AGAIN having these discussions.
No. I will walk away now and do my work.
No. I will walk away now and do my work.
yea but I'm not saying upload all that shit to public, i'm saying let the site owners access their ftp so that they can personally move their sites if they want to.
if you shut www down and leave ftp accounts open, people have the means AND an incentive to migrate. it's simple logic.
Sad to see it go. I had a lot of pictures there, which were used in various threads and comments. Now they will look like this:
To be clear: I did NOT open any file in those "users abused the webspace as private cloud disk". But the file names of course hint at stuff when scanning the (encrypted) disk.
I must and will use the only tool that can solve this privacy problem, as we do with every computer and server here that goes out of service: HDDs see a sledge hammer and drill.
I must and will use the only tool that can solve this privacy problem, as we do with every computer and server here that goes out of service: HDDs see a sledge hammer and drill.
Gargaj: The webspace FTP is used to upload malware. So now somehow we would need to configure this to be read-only. That is not a global config, stuff is patched to be chrooted etc. What you see in the FTP listings is not how stuff really is. pubftp and pubhtml are not even on the same server etc.
Hard task to change that? No. Probably 4-5 hours of work. Who knows.
Other people are urgently waiting for me. While I am an idiot and still writing here instead? Fuck my brain, really.
Hard task to change that? No. Probably 4-5 hours of work. Who knows.
Other people are urgently waiting for me. While I am an idiot and still writing here instead? Fuck my brain, really.
Still not AFK.
To clarify: Some people DID invest a couple of days, and everything you have in mind right now was discussed. You weren't around then, but other scene sysadmins. I do not blame them. Again, it is work. It is shitty work. Not fun.
However, that planning and pre-work of course did not happen on pouet, but on scenecity, which then also got abandoned because "let's give instead all our private chats to the AI overloads at Discord". And this I also shut down. Luckily in this case REALLY no-one has noticed.
Let's see if this finally is my last post on this. Fuck my brain.
To clarify: Some people DID invest a couple of days, and everything you have in mind right now was discussed. You weren't around then, but other scene sysadmins. I do not blame them. Again, it is work. It is shitty work. Not fun.
However, that planning and pre-work of course did not happen on pouet, but on scenecity, which then also got abandoned because "let's give instead all our private chats to the AI overloads at Discord". And this I also shut down. Luckily in this case REALLY no-one has noticed.
Let's see if this finally is my last post on this. Fuck my brain.
Gargaj: https://ftp.gathering.org/ftp.untergrund.net/ has a mirror of the FTP server (I turned off the sync yesterday, so it's now permanently frozen). This does not include MySQL databases or HTTP, so it is only part of the puzzle for those who wish to migrate.
I don't think anyone is asking you to do anything right this minute. You do what you've got to do.
We all appreaciate the years, decades, of efforts from you and other of (un)sung heroes keeping the backbone of the scene running.
Gargaj's proposal seem sensible though: www disabled, ftp enabled.
This moves a lot of pressure and an opens and easy migration path for anyone who still hasn't got the message.
Sure, bad actors can upload malware via ftp, but what are they gonna do then if www is down ? Spread this malware via ftp ?
We all appreaciate the years, decades, of efforts from you and other of (un)sung heroes keeping the backbone of the scene running.
Gargaj's proposal seem sensible though: www disabled, ftp enabled.
This moves a lot of pressure and an opens and easy migration path for anyone who still hasn't got the message.
Sure, bad actors can upload malware via ftp, but what are they gonna do then if www is down ? Spread this malware via ftp ?
Oh sweet!
That is a significant piece of the puzzle. Thanks folks!
That is a significant piece of the puzzle. Thanks folks!
Quote:
Gargaj: https://ftp.gathering.org/ftp.untergrund.net/ has a mirror of the FTP server (I turned off the sync yesterday, so it's now permanently frozen). This does not include MySQL databases or HTTP, so it is only part of the puzzle for those who wish to migrate.
Yeah the public FTP is still up, what I meant is people getting FTP access to their accounts (with user/pass, not anonymously) so that they can save off their site and put it online somewhere else.