preselection sucks
category: general [glöplog]
stefan: pop is a general term for the usual stuff. plenty genres apply to it, including the german hiphop crap, cheap melodic trance, funkgroove and all of that. also, most musicians mostly prefer listening to other genres then the ones they usually compose, so just please stfu when you dont know what you're babbling about.
yeti: more releases at smaller parties would defnitly be nice. dont think there is a shortage of them though, got quite a shitload of leaflets advertising for outline, demozone, buenzli, backslash, geekcamp, symphonym, simulaatio etc etc etc ..and dont forget to come to inerciademoparty.. in my pocket.
scamp: after skrebbels seminar, no democoder will accept music from any musician ever again!
Well, there IS some kind of solution. We tried it at tUM*o3.
We played a selection of tracks at the actual competition, but we made all other tracks available on the icecast-stream (which was available through the party-network) and thus, all tracks were available for voting, because we didn't disqualify anything.
The only downside was, that the visitors didn't understand what we tried to accomplish, and we were flamed big time because one track by Skyrunner won the mp3/ogg competition despite being only available in the icecast-stream - and almost everybody accused us of fake-voting and such.
So we abandoned the idea after that. But after reading all of this, it might be a good idea to try it again.
I'm not saying that there should be no preselection at all - but throwing out enties because there's only one hour for a music-competition sucks indeed.
I think we'll reintroduce this idea again at tUM*o6 this year.
We played a selection of tracks at the actual competition, but we made all other tracks available on the icecast-stream (which was available through the party-network) and thus, all tracks were available for voting, because we didn't disqualify anything.
The only downside was, that the visitors didn't understand what we tried to accomplish, and we were flamed big time because one track by Skyrunner won the mp3/ogg competition despite being only available in the icecast-stream - and almost everybody accused us of fake-voting and such.
So we abandoned the idea after that. But after reading all of this, it might be a good idea to try it again.
I'm not saying that there should be no preselection at all - but throwing out enties because there's only one hour for a music-competition sucks indeed.
I think we'll reintroduce this idea again at tUM*o6 this year.
ps:
Then how come its ALWAYS the same people nagging if you lüüüüüüüüüüf all theese genres? I mean, why bunch them together, label them "pop" and "booring" then? You are getting back to old ps/calodox style.. great, better fire up dxm 3d anusspengermongodeluxe!
Then how come its ALWAYS the same people nagging if you lüüüüüüüüüüf all theese genres? I mean, why bunch them together, label them "pop" and "booring" then? You are getting back to old ps/calodox style.. great, better fire up dxm 3d anusspengermongodeluxe!
Music competition on bigscreen may not be the right way of managing such an event in a so short time. This is adapted for the 100+2 people party.
By the way is there any competition remaining at breakpoint? Prods are played in an order which reflects jury's preference with purpose to make the compo more intertaining. Yeah, that's not a compo, that's a show where orga play their favourites and allow people to give their opinion...
Stop making music preselection!
Release everything on the party network, let people pre-vote, and make a show with the 10-20 best ranked tunes... Then keep every entry to get voted till the end.
This will save you time which you can use to create people's account when they arrive to prevent fraud.
Only ask attenders to upload an MP3/ogg with every entry to be sure everybody is able to listent to it.
Yeah, that would change things, but when things are not working anymore, some should dare to try new ones....
By the way is there any competition remaining at breakpoint? Prods are played in an order which reflects jury's preference with purpose to make the compo more intertaining. Yeah, that's not a compo, that's a show where orga play their favourites and allow people to give their opinion...
Stop making music preselection!
Release everything on the party network, let people pre-vote, and make a show with the 10-20 best ranked tunes... Then keep every entry to get voted till the end.
This will save you time which you can use to create people's account when they arrive to prevent fraud.
Only ask attenders to upload an MP3/ogg with every entry to be sure everybody is able to listent to it.
Yeah, that would change things, but when things are not working anymore, some should dare to try new ones....
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jco: You really really need to learn how to lose. Next to every musician thinks his own track was good enough to get preselected into the competition.
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<quote2>
Did you ever thought of the fact that your song was not as good as the other tracks that were preselected? I did not hear your track, so I can not tell, but I think some modesty and respect to the other musicians would fit here. And expecting a good reason why your song was not played is not fair either, then they should do that for every not- preselected tune... they would have to spend way too much time, which they do not have.
</quote>
somehow you didnt get my point ;)
problem for me is not (and was never) to be preselected (maybe the other tracks are just better), but that when i make "the usual boring techno track", it gets into the compo. It's more like i want that my multichannel 2nd place had better been kicked out of the compo in relation to the other one not making it in.
jco: You really really need to learn how to lose. Next to every musician thinks his own track was good enough to get preselected into the competition.
</quote>
<quote2>
Did you ever thought of the fact that your song was not as good as the other tracks that were preselected? I did not hear your track, so I can not tell, but I think some modesty and respect to the other musicians would fit here. And expecting a good reason why your song was not played is not fair either, then they should do that for every not- preselected tune... they would have to spend way too much time, which they do not have.
</quote>
somehow you didnt get my point ;)
problem for me is not (and was never) to be preselected (maybe the other tracks are just better), but that when i make "the usual boring techno track", it gets into the compo. It's more like i want that my multichannel 2nd place had better been kicked out of the compo in relation to the other one not making it in.
Why not just drop this whole music compo thing, it turns so many people into sad pandas. I don't think that's worth it.
stefan: pop and boring is used to coin the generalization of what gets played you dumbfuck, if i would be disclaiming against specific genres we would end up with the typical useless "you just dont like these genres" bullshit discussions, which besides beeing completly false, it would go against the ethos of this whole discussion which is purely about the sticking to the same old formulas that entertain the masses instead of playing the stuff thats more innovative/controversial/bizarre. we are all consumer heads to some degree, we like the masses crap, thats fine, but not on every goddamn entry on every goddamn compo of every goddamn party, especially not within a culture thats supposed to entice the development of new trends and diversification of tastes. i realize that its completly impossible to play 100 tracks on a big party, and that most of them are kaka for majority of ppl and would make it damn fucking boring as hell to sit through and listen, but the seek of alternatives to both extremes sounds like something quite well worth discussing; and if you would try to consider these issues instead of just going into the "oh they are just whinning" troll mode you might actually get that we are always the same ones complaining couz we are always the same ones who want to push the limits of the standards further whenever we see them getting stalled once more. i thought you were minimally aware of these issues, with compusphere not having compos per se but instead just showcases of the submitted productions, but apparently you still dont have a clue. do prove me wrong by all means, or if you cant atleast stfu and let other ppl discuss the actual topic at hand.
I had three "scenemusic" songs with me. My usual work is not really scene related so I didn't see the point (->.<-) to present such musics at a demoscene party.
One these 3 songs, 2 were boom-boom blah with good vibes but I thought it would have dishonnest to present that respectfully for the others competitors. I did decide to present something far more researched which took more time to do.
So, be sure that I don't care not being selected. I prefer to stay in limbos with a good reflect in the mirror than presenting a popular music that will hopefully win.
C'mon. We are demosceners. This is not satisfying to use demomaking tools to do our art (oh, you do already ?).
One these 3 songs, 2 were boom-boom blah with good vibes but I thought it would have dishonnest to present that respectfully for the others competitors. I did decide to present something far more researched which took more time to do.
So, be sure that I don't care not being selected. I prefer to stay in limbos with a good reflect in the mirror than presenting a popular music that will hopefully win.
C'mon. We are demosceners. This is not satisfying to use demomaking tools to do our art (oh, you do already ?).
I had three "scenemusic" songs with me. My usual work is not really scene related so I didn't see the point (->.<-) to present such musics at a demoscene party.
One these 3 songs, 2 were boom-boom blah with good vibes but I thought it would have dishonnest to present that respectfully for the others competitors. I did decide to present something far more researched which took more time to do.
So, be sure that I don't care not being selected. I prefer to stay in limbos with a good reflect in the mirror than presenting a popular music that will hopefully win.
C'mon. We are demosceners. This is not satisfying to use demomaking tools to do our art (oh, you do already ?).
One these 3 songs, 2 were boom-boom blah with good vibes but I thought it would have dishonnest to present that respectfully for the others competitors. I did decide to present something far more researched which took more time to do.
So, be sure that I don't care not being selected. I prefer to stay in limbos with a good reflect in the mirror than presenting a popular music that will hopefully win.
C'mon. We are demosceners. This is not satisfying to use demomaking tools to do our art (oh, you do already ?).
fuck and now I have two identical posts in here.
oxbow: word. time for preselectors to think that way.
hmm, what about a "pop" and an "alternative" music compo? Just let the preselectors decide where to put what. Sounds like an acceptable compromise for me...
hmm, what about a "pop" and an "alternative" music compo? Just let the preselectors decide where to put what. Sounds like an acceptable compromise for me...
Mekka used to have voting for the preselected music... right?
Quote:
I tried to create a very out-of-the-ordinary track that somehow combines spoken text, weird 80s music styles, realistic e-guitar-sound and funny but well-done vocals.
It's no secret that I don't care for "demoscene music", but you've piqued my interest, so I'll look out for that track after Evoke. Anything different is worth a try. (Well, to a certain extent. Necrophilia isn't exactly "normal", but that doesn't make it worth trying. But then again, I could be mistaken.)
What about playing all the compo entries in a streaming radio show, and make so that all the people at the party is doing preselection by some real-time voting scheme.
You can make it so that people can give a vote of whether the song should be out of the compo, if enough votes is reached, the song is stopped, and the next song starts.
You can make it so that people can give a vote of whether the song should be out of the compo, if enough votes is reached, the song is stopped, and the next song starts.
well, they HAD streams of the entries again this year...
No I didn't get to hear them either, I didn't get to do half what I wanted this year ):
It still ruled.
No I didn't get to hear them either, I didn't get to do half what I wanted this year ):
It still ruled.
What about setting the deadline very early and then playing a couple of tracks everytime when there is a break between compos or a delay?
have a pa for outside, and let people vote with sms if the current track sucks or rules.
or, maybe its better to just make a jukebox somewhere, and people can choose what tracks to play. most played tracks will win.
or, maybe its better to just make a jukebox somewhere, and people can choose what tracks to play. most played tracks will win.
I repeat: what about doing an "organizer's pick" like any year but letting people vote for the other tracks that are just dumped on an FTP?
That would mean this tracks are "released" and the authors have no chance to submit it to another party. While this doesn't change anything for bad tracks it may result in unhappy musicians who did good tracks which didn't made it through the preselection and which are still not that high ranked. If you listen to the tracks, then why don't you listen to them via the stream?
My 2 cents on this issue: Pre-selection is ok if it's consistent and done throroughly. Limiting animation compo to 1 hour max while it's ok to have demo compo with 30 entries is somehow... wrong. In fact even if I can understand the organizers point of view since Mekka and now at Breakpoint - wanting to show all the works possible - it just doesn't cut to make an entertaining experience for the party visitors. Thus, I'm with Sdw on pre-selecting max. 20 demos.
And about music compos ... well, I personally stopped entering to them at larger parties in 1998 and have been very happy person since then - I rather spare the good stuff for demo / intro soundtracks instead. :) Although making all entries downloadable / votable even they weren't played sounds fair to me.
And about music compos ... well, I personally stopped entering to them at larger parties in 1998 and have been very happy person since then - I rather spare the good stuff for demo / intro soundtracks instead. :) Although making all entries downloadable / votable even they weren't played sounds fair to me.
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Then somehow wayfinder told faith that my other track (the good one) didnt make it into the competition, just before the compo. Somehow he didnt dare telling me, though (thanks wayfinder, i love you too).
I hope you're not about to turn this into a persecution complex, because you should know how highly I value you and your work. Your track not being pre-selected to be played in the competition is dissappointing, I know only too well from personal experience. But please don't try to publicly make this out as a personal issue, because that's just a cheap shot and quite simply NOT TRUE. I didn't "not dare" to tell you you weren't preselected; I don't tell anyone by default. If Faith hadn't mentioned how much you were looking forward to being played, I wouldn't have told her either. She promptly stormed out to inform you though, maybe I should have held her back so I could have gotten to you first or something?
If anyone has a problem with the preselection, I heartily invite them to take part in the process next year (just like we invited people from the audience this year). We have nothing to hide, come and see for yourself how we're trying to make the competition as interesting and entertaining as possible to the visitors and as fair as possible to the musicians.
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That would mean this tracks are "released" and the authors have no chance to submit it to another party.
Well DUH that's why their authors entered them?
WF: It should be a pain in the ass to preselect among all those craps we dare to present. Sorry for that.
Maybe we all have to think that you selected all the best for best entertainment. Thank you.
Next time. Instead of going to a demoparty where I except to rise my mind, I'll go for a pop-corn movie with Chuck Norris so I'll have full and plain bullshit entertainment that pleases.
C'mon. We ALL deeply understand that preselection is not an easy job. I have already been part of a preselecting jury back in the old amiga days.
But again it's not an excuse for all these techno/trancy things selected this year though.
What's "disapointing" to you could be very good for another. Depends on the point of view man. Many different point of view lead to a rich common idea.
First: EVERYBODY could be part of the jury, not only musicians. It's insane.
Second: NON-SCENERS and MUSIC ENTHUSIASTS should be part of the jury. It includes invited peoples mainly known for their knowledges of music.
Third: The jury should select the songs all together through a common listening of the songs.
It requires a bit more of organization and time (mainly because you need to take some pauses to refresh your mind) but...
It's the respect you have to give to musicians who sometimes spend many days of their life on a song which won't even have focus.
Maybe we all have to think that you selected all the best for best entertainment. Thank you.
Next time. Instead of going to a demoparty where I except to rise my mind, I'll go for a pop-corn movie with Chuck Norris so I'll have full and plain bullshit entertainment that pleases.
C'mon. We ALL deeply understand that preselection is not an easy job. I have already been part of a preselecting jury back in the old amiga days.
But again it's not an excuse for all these techno/trancy things selected this year though.
What's "disapointing" to you could be very good for another. Depends on the point of view man. Many different point of view lead to a rich common idea.
First: EVERYBODY could be part of the jury, not only musicians. It's insane.
Second: NON-SCENERS and MUSIC ENTHUSIASTS should be part of the jury. It includes invited peoples mainly known for their knowledges of music.
Third: The jury should select the songs all together through a common listening of the songs.
It requires a bit more of organization and time (mainly because you need to take some pauses to refresh your mind) but...
It's the respect you have to give to musicians who sometimes spend many days of their life on a song which won't even have focus.