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Should demoscene be explicit or P.C.?

category: offtopic [glöplog]
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... that demoscene has to follow the path of political correctness...

I think you are confusing being profane or offensive with being politically incorrect. You don't need any profanity or offensive content to address a subject counter the "currently accepted form."

In case of offensiveness and/or profanity: read party rules as tomkh pointed out. Best rule, however, is the basic TRSAC rule: Use your common sense, goddamnit
added on the 2017-05-09 08:15:29 by d0DgE d0DgE
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seems to me that everybody in this thread either agrees with one another, or is ranting against extremist views that nobody here actually holds.

So, just another day on the interwebs? :)
added on the 2017-05-09 09:06:10 by kusma kusma
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In case of offensiveness and/or profanity: read party rules as tomkh pointed out. Best rule, however, is the basic TRSAC rule: Use your common sense, goddamnit

The "Girls of the Demoscene" tripe was played on the bigscreen even though it was disqualified from the compo - where's the abiding of party rules / common sense in that?
But even things like "setting a PC on fire is okay, setting an Amiga on fire is not okay", sure, I understand the logic, but it's not exactly common sense, is it?

Things aren't always as clean-cut.
added on the 2017-05-09 09:35:58 by Gargaj Gargaj
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The "Girls of the Demoscene" tripe was played on the bigscreen even though it was disqualified from the compo - where's the abiding of party rules / common sense in that?

IIRC it was shown pretty late during the night as a compromise between presenting the authors' work and not disturbing children and upsetting parents.

Which I think underlines your point that things aren't always as clean-cut -- if the boundaries of a given set of rules are strained, decisions have to be made, and while I didn't like the prod, I think the decision was a good one.
added on the 2017-05-09 09:52:25 by dojoe dojoe
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Things aren't always as clean-cut.


It's an imperfect universe, innit? That's what tolerance is for, which, counter to public belief -- or the current politically correct interpretation ;) -- doesn't mean to like or accept something:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tolerare
added on the 2017-05-09 10:23:23 by d0DgE d0DgE
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added on the 2017-05-09 11:08:09 by xernobyl xernobyl
First I thought I don't even want to read this read and especially I don't want to comment bu what the hell...

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Male sceners are just nice to female sceners because they hope to score with one of them.


Whoa, I didn't realize that many people wants to score with me! Thanks for declaring that. So the others who are just jerks towards me are the ones who I should hang out with as at least those don't have any hidden agenda!!

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@groepaz: i've seen and heard about some really vile attitudes towards women that want to be democoders, extremely dismissive sexist remarks and general putdowns just because of their gender. Just because you don't see doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


This. Just because it is not visible to everyone it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

And then my 2 cents to the actual topic:

I don't think censoring art is a good way to go, if it is good with the party rules and ok for the party organizers then it is ok to publish the entry there. However I think the discussion that some entries provoke is more than welcome. I however do think I have the right to give a thumbdown and make bitter comments or feel hurt if something hurts me. As well as I think I have the right to not to like people who treats me bad. Just fucking deal with it and stop whining that some one is upset about your demo! Consider that they may actually have a valid point and you actually may be misogynist/racist/ableist/what ever even without realizing that. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't have done the demo in the first place or that you are a bad person. It just means that you need to take a look at the mirror and reflect a bit and deal with the responsibility the freedom of the speech gives to you.
added on the 2017-05-09 11:22:14 by rimina rimina
rimina wins the thread, hands down!
added on the 2017-05-09 12:08:47 by tomkh tomkh
I think we're done here..
added on the 2017-05-09 13:19:54 by djh0ffman djh0ffman
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Male sceners are just nice to female sceners because they hope to score with one of them.


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rimina wins the thread, hands down!
added on the 2017-05-09 13:22:40 by tFt tFt
tFt: very funny.
added on the 2017-05-09 13:31:23 by tomkh tomkh
I like South Park very much.
added on the 2017-05-09 13:55:13 by AceMan AceMan
I've found usages of demos, but nothing concretely political correct. That said, finally first prods have been something a mother may inspire you, but it's mainly my point of seeing while boozing surround creation, and MacBook Pro 2016 really hit my hopes in matter of conception of modern computers.
added on the 2017-05-09 18:46:08 by Barti Barti
I like turtles.
added on the 2017-05-09 18:58:15 by 1in10 1in10
Me too.
added on the 2017-05-09 21:18:55 by skrebbel skrebbel
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First I thought I don't even want to read this read and especially I don't want to comment bu what the hell...

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Male sceners are just nice to female sceners because they hope to score with one of them.
I shouldn't be commenting here either, but I really can't fathom the thought that went into typing the original quoted comment there. That's just... crazy. and assuming everyone thinks the same.

I also know not everyone at a demoparty is a creepy sleaze, but that experiences can vary. I would hope that people strive to be reasonable toward people, since what with all the joking proclaiming of "the scene is dead" the easiest way to make that real is to alienate people who want to be a part of it, regardless of who they are.

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@groepaz: i've seen and heard about some really vile attitudes towards women that want to be democoders, extremely dismissive sexist remarks and general putdowns just because of their gender. Just because you don't see doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


This. Just because it is not visible to everyone it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
There was a scener, reasonably known, who I won't name who commented once or twice on the Nectarine oneliner that they (paraphrased from memory quote) "would totally ogle Lycan" at Revision, and they're married! That's not OK and I said as much at the time. So it happens even outside of demoparties, even when the people who are targeted might not even be around.

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And then my 2 cents to the actual topic:

I don't think censoring art is a good way to go, if it is good with the party rules and ok for the party organizers then it is ok to publish the entry there. However I think the discussion that some entries provoke is more than welcome. I however do think I have the right to give a thumbdown and make bitter comments or feel hurt if something hurts me. As well as I think I have the right to not to like people who treats me bad. Just fucking deal with it and stop whining that some one is upset about your demo! Consider that they may actually have a valid point and you actually may be misogynist/racist/ableist/what ever even without realizing that. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't have done the demo in the first place or that you are a bad person. It just means that you need to take a look at the mirror and reflect a bit and deal with the responsibility the freedom of the speech gives to you.
Well in general I agree, I suppose, though it's possible to argue that something could be purposely targeting someone unfairly but not so overtly everyone sees it. Regardless, there's probably some boundaries where if you go past it, the orgas have the right to say no (obvious ones include illegal stuff or mentioning/reenacting things detestable to many many people).

I'm going to possibly guess this is related to a particular Revision demo. As such if there had been self-censoring, there'd have been no "hello, kevin" demo, for example. To your point there were people, such as MrsBeanbag, who identified with the character (in some ways), and along with others seemed to point out that people were getting angry "on their behalf", even if they didn't want or ask for it.

At any rate... page 7?
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There was a scener, reasonably known, who I won't name who commented once or twice on the Nectarine oneliner that they (paraphrased from memory quote) "would totally ogle Lycan" at Revision, and they're married! That's not OK and I said as much at the time. So it happens even outside of demoparties, even when the people who are targeted might not even be around.
The purposeful intent to ogle bit is not OK I mean. The married bit... that's their problem to work out if they piss off their wife. There was a slight bit more than I'm remembering, I think, but it was more than a year ago at this point.
Knokie! Where the fuck are you with the ponies?
added on the 2017-05-09 22:06:18 by Deus Deus
Starchaser seems to be onto something... I mean... page 7 is going to be great ;)

But we should really stick to the topic.
Behavioral issues != (is not equal to) parental advisory and explicitly of the content.

And just to remind you: propagating hate is regulated by the law, so there is really no need to discuss that. So yeah, as rimina said, no -ism of any kind, end of story.

Also, what you are constantly describing (usually referring to behavioral issues, but it can also a message of the demo) is sexual harassment - believe it or not, this is also regulated by the law, and you in fact can get sued even for putting a comment on pouet. You just got lucky nobody really filed a formal complaint so far.
added on the 2017-05-09 22:40:56 by tomkh tomkh
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Knokie! Where the fuck are you with the ponies?


You get one (1) sanic picture instead and that's it.

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This thread sucks.
added on the 2017-05-09 22:56:23 by Optimonk Optimonk
I remember when I got my first PC. It was an original IBM 5150 with max. 64K RAM on the motherboard (I think) and a RAM expansion card that bumped it up to 512K. At that time, it didn't have a harddisk, just two full height 5 1/4 inch drives that sounded like they were eating the floppies, rather than reading them.

The CPU ran at 4.77 MHz; slow as sh*t through a funnel. At boot time, when there wasn't a floppy in the drives containing a valid bootsector, the PC would start up Basic, which was contained in the ROM of the motherboard.

The very first models, like mine, had a cassette interface, and you could save your basic programs that way. Having floppies, I never tried this.

The PC came with a CGA adapter and a CGA monitor. To this day I can't understand what went through the engineer's mind when he/she picked those awful colour palettes!! I nagged my father for ages so he would by an EGA card so I could at least pretend to compete with my friends, who had Commodore 64/128s.

Much later, in 1991, I bought a 386DX33 which had a VGA card. I remember a scener coming up to me at The Party 5(?) . He held in his hand a floppy which contained a program to benchmark various VGA function. I ran the prorgam. It produced some numbers. He looked at them and replied: "This is the absolute slowest VGA card I have ever seen".

And that is the reason I've been depressed ever since.

The End.
added on the 2017-05-10 00:25:13 by trc_wm trc_wm
trc_wm: I had a 386 SX40 PC for about four years, and for three of them I had the CPU cache disabled.

Not to mention it was running on a black and white monitor that could only display the green channel - but I still loved it! Running mods with dmp and watching Future Crew demos at a stupid low frame rate. Good times... slow, but good.
added on the 2017-05-10 00:42:16 by rc55 rc55
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I like turtles.


Then you should not play Super Mario!
added on the 2017-05-10 01:11:37 by T$ T$

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