ZX Spectrum Pallete vs. Commodore 64 pallete

category: gfx [glöplog]
It's a single-chip implementation of a C64, built into a joystick. For some reason it also has some extra features, like more colors.

added on the 2006-06-15 10:45:44 by cruzer cruzer

256x192 RGBi scheme. 8 digital RGB colorurs + Bright attribute. = 15 colours.
added on the 2006-06-15 11:15:57 by Exin Exin
Damn! If demoscene.gr was not down, I would upload the amstrad CPC pallete here ;P

So, the Speccy looks also pixelated because of it's resolution (256*192 iirc) compared to the high res (320*200) of the C64. In that mode, both computers can use only 2 colors per 8*8 tile (and in the C64 one of them is the background color, which must be one and the same for each tile iirc again).

But in terms of color pallete, I've too found the C64 having a bit worn out/not happy colors (maybe a bit artistic and more interesting though) while Speccy pals are the most usual ones you can find also in CPC (which has even more happier colors but still lacks of those grey varieties on the C64). I know several graphicians from the CPC who find the C64 colors annoying. (The 27 colors of the CPC pallete are constructed easilly, it's combination of 3 values (0, 127, 255) for each RGB). Also the CPC doesn't have tile restrictions at all, uses 16 of them in 160*200, 4 in 320*200 and 2 in 640*200. However, without tiles we can't have several colors in a 320*200 screen at the same time (except if we change the pallete during the retrace at some rasters) and the videoram gets too big (16kb).

And yet there is the CPC+ with 4096 colors (RGB 4bit each) still using 16 of them in 160*200, 4 of them in 320*200, etc. Except if you use the hardware sprites to have plus 16 in any resolution of the sprite. Though most of the scene is still on the CPC (good for me :).

However, the coders of these machines have found ways to produce more colors in high resolutions and have less restrictions with things like multicolor, interlace, fli, raster colors, etc. (Terms taken from both three machines, some of them are actually the similar thing named in a diferrent way ;)
added on the 2006-06-15 11:28:54 by Optimonk Optimonk
@Optimus: There is 100% flexible foreground and background color for each 8x8 tile in hires bitmap on C64. The general background color only applies for multicolor bitmap or char mode. The last two pics in Scout's post are UFLI, which means that there is flexible colors for 8x2 tiles, plus an X-expanded sprite layer behind the gfx.

So it's possible to have some more colors close to eachother than on Speccy, and I guess that's the main reason why Speccy gfx'ers have to pixelate their pics more.
added on the 2006-06-15 12:17:33 by cruzer cruzer
Ah yes, you are right. Now I recall well the problem upload in lowres only on the C64. That's more a problem of Speccy..
added on the 2006-06-15 12:53:27 by Optimonk Optimonk
Shit. That C64 direct to TV is quite good for hacking! I have a Ms Pacman Plug and Play, and I opened it and it was bad! But acording to Wikipedia the C64 plug and play is a great thing...
added on the 2006-06-15 14:57:43 by xernobyl xernobyl
The definitive Page why C64-palette is better then the rgb-based ones on spectrum+cpc, and why most emulators suck
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Look what we have on Speccy when we switch 2 or 3 screens as quick as possible (50Hz/2=25FPS or 50Hz/3~~16,6FPS)! We get the same color palette but not with 8x8 px at 1 color and 1 paper (2 colors) but 2 or 3 less "pixels" size! I can't exactly tell how much less, because it depends on the switching images. The screenshot - is the photoshopped 3 frames of one picture - each layer has 33% of transparency. Placed on each other. The lower layer has 0% transparency. I merged the layers down and got the screen above. If you see it's palette - it has 8 colors as it should be, but look how closer the 3 or more colors are now can be! For example pay attention at the "slime" on the tongue - it's contours are black, the slime is green with yellow dots and the tongue is red! And they are so close to each other.
added on the 2006-06-15 21:49:07 by alfsoft alfsoft
Alfsoft: This image must flicker as hell....
added on the 2006-06-15 22:06:09 by Exin Exin

Ok, the ZX pic's above are well drawn but the pallette makes me want to stab a fork in my eyes.

Oh, you think that's bad? Time for some CGA art :-)


added on the 2006-06-15 22:30:33 by sparcus sparcus
Blergh :-(

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added on the 2006-06-15 22:32:26 by sparcus sparcus
those cga examples above are stylish as hell.
added on the 2006-06-15 22:48:14 by dipswitch dipswitch
They come from ACiD.
added on the 2006-06-15 22:58:18 by sparcus sparcus
Wow! I've never expected this discussion to work. By my standards is working. ;)
added on the 2006-06-15 23:06:44 by xernobyl xernobyl
Wow! I've never expected this discussion to work. By my standards is working. ;)

I'm enjoying the profusion of random art from oldschool platforms, so yes it is working, and thanks :-)
added on the 2006-06-15 23:15:55 by CiH CiH
woooha these CGA pics rule!!!! bu also the c64 and spectrum pics of course... this triple-interlace must have hurt a lot tho, i recall it did to me when making tests myself XD
added on the 2006-06-15 23:49:53 by winden winden
sparcus: No, the CGA examples actually work for me. It's the speccy pallette, maximum red, maximum blue PLUS maximum magenta! Throw in a little womit yellow/green and AAARRRGGGHHH! :)
added on the 2006-06-16 00:52:55 by El Topo El Topo
It's also that black is so strong in the pallette, no gray shades on speccy I guess...
added on the 2006-06-16 00:56:14 by El Topo El Topo
Analizing that pic I don't think that the gain in picture quality would make for the flicking :/ but I've never seen a Specy demo running on the real thing.
added on the 2006-06-16 01:49:29 by xernobyl xernobyl
That picture is actually quite crappy even in comparison to many non-interlaced Speccy screens. 2-frame interlacing is capable of this:
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(hope the second one works - the server is serving it weirdly)

But who needs fancy graphics modes anyway when you have Rion...
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added on the 2006-06-16 11:13:28 by gasman gasman
Well, I'd say you pretty much need fancy graphic modes
added on the 2006-06-16 12:00:59 by El Topo El Topo
Who needs interlace, when you have the UFLI wizard TCH on C64?
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added on the 2006-06-16 12:31:08 by cruzer cruzer
That picture is actually quite crappy even in comparison to many non-interlaced Speccy screens. 2-frame interlacing is capable of this:
No offence, but that looked rather shitty and reminded me of the ugly dithering of pictures in a time when I was using Windows 3.1. When I don't want to see something anymore, then it's that kind dithering. ... I actually write this comment under Windows XP using 640x480 with 4bpp. The pouet page looks that ugly, the pics are beginning to look nice. Weird.
I actually like the bright psychedelic colors in the Spectrum palette. In fact it's quite close to the VIC-20 palette (except for that the "bright black" and "bright white" have been replaced by brown and orange in the VIC-I).

I let someone else paste the rasterbars :)
gasmans first 2 pictures are acutally some of the worst examples you can give for dithering. the third one is great though ;)
added on the 2006-06-19 14:30:07 by third_dot third_dot